Romin2003 said: Don't mean to sound TOO defensive, but I am a woman and I know what women like. You need to ask some female figures in your life what's up. :-) Peace

Fair enough. If there was any character of Diesel's I'd say at least approached real badassness for me, it would be Riddick.

And I definitely agree that Scarface is badass for the majority of the movie, the more I think about it.

And well, I didn't disagree with you one bit when it came to Craig's James Bond. He is badass. And like I said, only missed the list by a hair.

I just asked my wife about badasses. She chose Maverick from Top Gun. I'm divorcing her.

Riddick: because if MY ass was in the line, I much rather have him by my side than Durden, a total psycopathic loon who does not even know who the deuce he really is. Riddick knows who he is, what he has, and what he can do with it and when. As a woman, that's the man I want to have my back, not some shortcuited poor excuse of a human being. Posturing or not, I believed Riddick, I don't give a rat's bottom about Vin Diesel.

Scarface. Because that MoFo stood up in the hugest coke distributor's turf, questioned him about having cojones and pretty much said "either kill me or shut the #$&* up. If you can do that to a drug lord and walk away with your male gkands in one piece, then my hat's off to you.

James Bond. Let's try the little chair exercise for a minute, shall we? My husband moans like a haunted soul when he has a cold, and runs from me when I try to put alcohol in a little scrape. He grimaced all the way home after we watched the movie in the theater. By the way, he's not a sissy: my husband played Defesive Tackle in HS and college, is 6'4" and 298 lbs and has practiced Krav Maga since he was 12 (hence, my fascination with bad asses).

Don't mean to sound TOO defensive, but I am a woman and I know what women like. You need to ask some female figures in your life what's up. :-) Peace

tronny said:
Saying that Durden can't be badass because he's a "fascist cult leader" brings into question the entire idea of what makes a badass badass. You list other's such as John Matrix and Snake Plissken, who both act as vigilantes, flouting the law to enforce their own style of justice.

I'm not saying Durden isn't a badass because he's just a "fascist cult leader." You missed 2 qualifiers: he's got whiney daddy issues (which makes him come off as an overgrown emo kid) and if you want to view him as a separate entity then from The Narrator's perspective Durden uses his cult of space monkeys to hide behind, which feels a tad cowardly in my opinion.

But those are sort of superficial reasons. I'm glad you brought up the whole topic of character's philosophical persuasions if you will.

It isn't that I agree or disagree with a character's "intentions." It whether the characters themselves (and perhaps even the film itself) truly believe in their belief system—which may boil down to if you mess with me, I’ll kill you. And their commitment to their beliefs is displayed through their actions without wavering in the moment, which is an important ingredient in badasses. Fortitude is perhaps the foundation of badassosity. For example, Snake's actions at the end of Escape From LA are the logical extension of his moral code if you will. And he pushes that button with out questioning himself.

However Fight Club is a constant internal struggle with one’s philosophy. You have a character who is so unsure in his belief system that he has a mental schism. And he’s literally beating himself up over his indecisiveness. And to me, you just can’t separate The Narrator from Durden. No matter the POV or the level of awareness, Durden still sprung from The Narrator's mind. They are the one and same. Therefore the buildings going down at the end don’t carry the same “conviction to action” weight as the conclusion of Escape from LA because The Narrator (who is also Durden) has rejected the moral code—his moral code–that has brought this action about. In fact he (and the film) has rejected the entire “Durden Belief System” and that to me diminishes any badassosity Durden (if even one considered him as a separate entity) could have mustered.

But why am I trying to prove a negative here. I want to know why Durden is badass.

Personally I agree with David in that you must consider both The Narrator and Tyler when looking at Durden considering one doesn't exist without the other and since The Narrator is a pussy hiding behind a second personality I probably would have nixed him as well. It's all a matter of opinion. But, I think you should read David's statement on Boondock Saints just for kicks since you brought it up.

Maybe try and cut down on the name calling since you obviously have more intelligent things to say. Nice to have you around.

davidfrank said: And a typo and preference for AragoRn hardly makes me an asshole.

Doesn't Durden's nonexistence nullify him from being a badass since his actions (in the imaginary image of a "badass" Brad Pitt) have no concrete bearing on the world outside of the Narrator's mind? And since Durden and The Narrator are the one in same don't you have to consider them as one person? And if so would you then consider Durden to be a badass by imagining all of his actions in the image of Edward Norton, which is sort of scary/silly since that means he's talking and beating up himself most of the time?

But let's ignore that. If we were to consider Durden as a separate entity. What's badass about a fascist cult leader with daddy issues who, as it appears in the mind of the Narrator, to hide behind his goon squad of "space monkeys"?

If there is a badass character moment in Fight Club (and don't take this as a bashing of Fight Club, I love the film) it belongs to Edward Norton when he blows a hole in his face, essentially as an FU to everything Durden represents in himself.

The purpose of my labeling you as an asshole was merely to establish that Aragorn deserves enough respect to have his name spelled correctly.

The reason Durden can be characterized as a badass without bringing in Edward Norton is that he is still considered a separate entity because he is, in essence, acting separately from the conscious Edward Norton. Norton's schizophrenic counterpart can hardly be considered a part of Norton because of how little the conscious that we believe to be the narrator is involved in Durden's actions. Basically, Norton, as the narrator, isn't even there when Durden acts, which is why we still see Norton. It's not as if Norton is seeing to screens at the same time, both his perspective and Tyler's perspective. He's only seeing the third-person point of view.

Saying that Durden can't be badass because he's a "fascist cult leader" brings into question the entire idea of what makes a badass badass. You list other's such as John Matrix and Snake Plissken, who both act as vigilantes, flouting the law to enforce their own style of justice. By including these two but not considering Durden makes it seem as though you define a badass as the good guy. You're real basis for what makes a badass has turned into a judgement of who's intentions agree with your own most closely. People like Connor and Murphy of Boondock Saints would have more of a chance in making your list than Anton Chigurh.

tronny said: I'm hardly a meathead frat boy, and I believe my understanding of Fight Club is deep enough to justify my calling Durden a badass despite the fact that he wasn't real but an embodiment of all that Edward Norton wished he was.

And a typo and preference for AragoRn hardly makes me an asshole.

Doesn't Durden's nonexistence nullify him from being a badass since his actions (in the imaginary image of a "badass" Brad Pitt) have no concrete bearing on the world outside of the Narrator's mind? And since Durden and The Narrator are the one in same don't you have to consider them as one person? And if so would you then consider Durden to be a badass by imagining all of his actions in the image of Edward Norton, which is sort of scary/silly since that means he's talking and beating up himself most of the time?

But let's ignore that. If we were to consider Durden as a separate entity. What's badass about a fascist cult leader with daddy issues who, as it appears in the mind of the Narrator, to hide behind his goon squad of "space monkeys"?

If there is a badass character moment in Fight Club (and don't take this as a bashing of Fight Club, I love the film) it belongs to Edward Norton when he blows a hole in his face, essentially as an FU to everything Durden represents in himself.

davidfrank said: Yes, yes assholes can't spell. Didn't you know that? Actually, that is pretty embarassing since I read the book yearly. Gandalf was a near miss. I prefer AragoRn.

Tyler Durden is a badass for meathead frat boys who don't understand Fight Club.

I'm hardly a meathead frat boy, and I believe my understanding of Fight Club is deep enough to justify my calling Durden a badass despite the fact that he wasn't real but an embodiment of all that Edward Norton wished he was.

Romin2003 said: :-)

Hard to choose from my almost perfect list, but I'll try:
2) Richard B. Riddick "Pitch Black".
5) James Bond "Casino Royale"
8) Tony Montana "Scarface".

Pretty decent list. Although I think Vin Diesel is better at badass posturing. I've never really bought him as a badass character. Too self-conscious. And Tony Montana…well kind of. But he's sort of a self-sorry wanker by the film's end. And he's got the hots for his sister. So I don't know. However, Daniel Craig's James Bond is indeed the badass of all Bonds, and he missed the list just by a blond hair.

tronny said: WOAH WOAH WOAH! I made this account just so I could say, "You, sir, are an asshole." I say this because ARAGORN is not some dragon. Notice the second R? Huh? BIG mistake. Other than that, I'm a fan of your work.

P.S. Did you see Gandalf? He's about 100 times better than Aragorn.
P.P.S. Tyler Durden?
P.P.P.S. Uma is a good choice.

Yes, yes assholes can't spell. Didn't you know that? Actually, that is pretty embarassing since I read the book yearly. Gandalf was a near miss. I prefer AragoRn.

Tyler Durden is a badass for meathead frat boys who don't understand Fight Club.

P.S. Did you see Gandalf? He's about 100 times better than Aragorn.
P.P.S. Tyler Durden?
P.P.P.S. Uma is a good choice.

Hard to choose from my almost perfect list, but I'll try:

1) Anton Chigurgh "No Country for Old Men".
2) Richard B. Riddick "Pitch Black".
3) King Leonidas "300".
4) John Rambo "First Blood".
5) James Bond "Casino Royale"
6) Bill Munny "Unforgiven".
7) Jules "Pulp Fiction".
8) Tony Montana "Scarface".
9) John McClane "Die Hard".
10) Jason Bourne "The Bourne" series. .

shermy said: Great list, but you left out one of Will Munny's best lines. When the Schofield Kid reasons that the man he's just shot 'had it comin', Munny just coldly states, "We all have it comin', kid."

An extremely badass line that speaks volumes about the character.

I'm in complete agreement. That was an unintentional omission.

An extremely badass line that speaks volumes about the character.

jack_byrnes86 said: yet it does not include the most Badass character of all time: John J. Rambo.

Rambo is a badass. But I gave my reasoning why he's not there: John Matrix would steel pipe Rambo to a wall while he was bawling like a little biyatch about holding his dead combat buddies guts:((. And you know what Jason Bourne would do if he was holding his friend's guts? He'd save the drama for his mama ands use his buddy's intestines to strangle his enemy to death. Now that's truly badass.:rockon2:

But I didn't. It was awesome. Nearly perfect. Bogart needed to be on there. It's just wrong that he isn't. I think you could have lost Aragorn, but, then, maybe that's just me.

If we're going to talk grizzled old soldier ommissions, however, I think R. Lee Ermey should be there for Full Metal Jacket long before Sam Eliott gets on the list for that piece of crap We Were Soldiers. If Eliott belongs on the list, put him on there for one of his good movies. Heck, put him on there for Roadhouse, I don't care. Just don't put him on there for that worthless pile of Mel Gibson hooey.

Otherwise, great list. The fact you remembered Mifune just totally tickled me pink.

RaTTleR_NL said: Nice list, I especially like first and second place. Just missing Sgt. Maj. Basil Plumley (Sam Elliot – We Were Soldiers). Marines piss their pants just trying to say good morning to him.

He's definitely one of Sam Elliot's great characters. And he some great badass dialogue that my buddies and I still quote.

Good Morning sir

How do you know what kind of goddamn day it is?