Taking It to the People: Letter Grades or No Letter Grades
Okay, you have me second guessing myself
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It's sort of funny to me how some of the more coherent conversation regarding the nature of letter grades and movie reviewing has come when I decide to get rid of them outright. However, some of the recent comments on my "Saying Farewell to Movie Review Letter Grades" has me thinking perhaps I have jumped the gun and succumbed to the pains-in-my-neck that invariably week after week either comment or send in emails bitching about this grade or that grade.
So, in an effort to reach out to the interested parties I will let you decide the future of some form of movie grading on RopeofSilicon.com.
Photo: San Francisco Chronicle
I say "some form" of grading because while I may be willing to reinstate the letter grade for the time being I still plan on coming up with an alternative similar to what is used at the San Francisco Gate, which you can see directly above. A method that pretty much gives some indication of my feelings for the movie. I am also planning on adding a "Bottom Line" sentence to each review and if all goes according to plan publishing a "This Week at the Theater" type of column running down all the films opening that week along with a couple of quick comments such as I do on a weekly basis for the new DVDs and Blu-rays (example).
That said, vote in the poll above and then leave any comments, suggestions or complaints directly below. After all, I post these reviews to open discussion and give you an idea of what to expect from a movie and if a grade/rating is important to most of you then I will roll back my decision (after only a few days) and reinstate the grades. Just so you know, I won't depend solely on the poll to make a decision, your comments will play just as large a role if not larger. I only expect the more interested readers to take part in this so be sure to speak up if you care one way or another.
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I would even consider different genres. For example, A family film would have a sleeping father with the kids alert (Transformers 2) or both of them wide awake (Up).
I personally think that the removal of movie grades are a phenomenal decision- it's true, a lot of the time people jump right to the grade and use that to make a conscious decision about the movie, while the actual body is either ignored or under-appreciated. While I have always graded movies in my own reviews (I find it to be a lot of fun), I feel like if you think that your grades are triggering pointless arguments and your actual opinion of the movie isn't launching any good discussion, your decision to review grades is quite plausible. I have always found your reviews very fun to read, scrupulous and incisive, so I wouldn't mind.
I think the movie grades should comeback to this site. Sometimes when i'm at the movies I go on to your site by iPhone and I used to see all the grades. Now it's difficult for me to use your site to decide sometimes because at one point there can be 3 or 4 movies comming out this weekend and if there and haven't decided yet it'll be a bit hard to choose. You have great reviews but puting some kind of indication of how much you liked the movie will help us a lot!
Brad i like to just look at your grade first to see if the movie is really worth going to see or not. i like to read your reviews after ive seen the movie and somewhat compare your thoughts on the movie to how i felt about it.
I read your reviews top to bottom. And guess what, by the end of your review I can usually tell at least two things. 1) Whether you actually enjoyed the movie or not. 2) Whether I will enjoy the movie or not. When you stopped taking away letter grades, it took me until you posting the article SAYING you took them away before I realized it. I never looked at them to begin with. You don't run this site and post these reviews to just…post a full little HTML picture of one of the first six letters of the alphabet, excluding E of course. You run this site to, I think, to inform us with valuable information on what is going on in the industry and give us your opinion on the products they churn out.
I love that you took the letters away. They never mattered to begin with.
This is the first time i've ever left a comment but i've been following your website very closely for over a year now, and I would like the letter grade reinstated, I find it just to be more concrete as to what you really thought in a quantifiable sort of way. I could be reading an old review of yours and without the letter grade my view of your review could range from you thought it was a B+ movie to an A movie, which makes a difference to me at least, i feel the letter or star when used by a good critic ties the entire review all together.
If the letter grade isn't reinstated I would also agree with out in putting a little summary line of a sentence or two summing up your end thoughts of the film in question.
I also find myself in the same place as Zack where I typically read the entirety of your reviews after I have seen the movie, because although i have the utmost respect for your reviews I want a clean slate going in, and since I find we share alot of the same tastes i like comparing my view to your view after the fact. But like Zack I look at the letter first, there's way too many movies out these days, If i see that you gave a movie an D or C and metacritic agrees then i just won't see it.
I really like the idea of a "Bottom Line" sentence. It could have the same purpose of a grade but your opinion on the movie could be more developed.
I hate the letter grade. It's so static, so final, so lacking in any context. But as one of the people who gave you a hard time about a letter grade for a particular movie, I apologize, especially sincie it seems to have driven you off the edge.
I await your alternate system.
i read your reviews to help me decide which movie i should see even tho i dont always agree to your letter grade in a weird way it just was like ok you gave it a B ill see i enjoyed them so please go back to the letter grade
I dont like the letter grades that much. But i would like to see something there grading the movie on a scale. To me there isnt much difference in a movie thats graded with a B+ to an A- . What qualifies that movie to be a B+ or A- ? I cant seem to group the movies and see why they would be those grades. The "Bottom Line" sentence is a good idea , giving us a final thoughts to what the movie could have improved on. What ever your choices are in the grading system im sure its a good one. Good job on the reviews Brad ! keeping the site awesome!
I like the bottom line idea. It doesn't have the finality a letter grade does.
I personally vote for the letter grade to be gone. This way people are forced to actually read the review and understand where your coming from, instead of getting pissy when ROTF gets a c-. I have always been a fan of your reviews but hate it when people write a comment just about the grade without any discussion why you graded something. I'm personally happier without those people.
I LOOOOVE the letter grades. Brad, you are my favorite movie reviewer by FAR and there's no one out there that I find myself agreeing with more. I've visited your site daily for 2 years. When I'm interested in a movie I look to see your letter grade because validates my interest or not. If you give it a review lower than I expected than I probably won't see it.
Example, I was pumped for The Informant but when you said it was almost a bait and switch I decided to wait for it. I was going to wait for Paranormal Activity, but after giving it an A+ I decided to see it in theaters because I know how tough of a grader you are. So that's my case, PLEASE bring it back :)
I really like the grade, because it tells me what you thought about the film without having to read the review. As someone who writes reviews myself, I am always afraid of becoming too influenced by the opinions of others. The grade allows me to get your general opinion on the film without robbing me of the joy of finding a movie's joys and thematic depth by myself. Then, once I have seen the movie and written a review myself, I can come back and read your full review.
I don't care about the grades. If people want them, well, let it be. It's not like I enjoy this sytem, because it's true that people give too much attention to the grades and too little to the fact that everyone has different tastes, but hey. Nothing you can do about it.
When I write reviews, I never give any grades, unless it's required by the paper/website. And when I do, well, you can just argue forever why "Basterds" is 5/6 and not 6/6 or 4/6 and I don't really enjoy that, 'cause some people just use the grades to tell you that their taste is better than yours.
We talked about this the other day. Skip the grades. Another system might be fine, but will get argued about too.
I believe you should reinstate some form of grade, not necessarily a letter grade. so that we at least have the gist of how good/bad a movie is, without having to "pick apart" a review.
Brad I like the letter grade system. It helped me see your final feelings after your reviews and whn I would talk to people about a movie I would always say "The Rope gave it" whatever grade it was so I say please keep it because even though some people bash it I think it really works
I agree that you should have some form of grading, just less definite than the letter system. It creates too much pointless debate and predisposes people to judge a movie before actually seeing it. I know this from personal experience, and so if it were up to me your reviews wouldn't be graded. I've found that just looking at the RT rating is enough when in a situation that I don't have time to read your review. But I understand that some people like to get a general sense of your opinion going into the review, so a system similar to that cute San Francisco Gate cartoon would be nice.
It's tough for me to make a decision because I really don't know what you were going to do instead of the letter grades, but personally, I would like to see them reinstated. I enjoy seeing grades just like I enjoy seeing stars next to Ebert's reviews. This is entirely up to you however because I will read the reviews no matter what your decision is.
I like letters grades. It's a concrete measurement of your overall opinion. I know some people will say: "Oh, but something like criticism shouldn't be so concrete!" But I say: "Why not?"
:D
Mostly I read reviews after I see the movie ( A lot of reviews, especially Ebert's have spoilers). Personally I would give letter grades because it's fun.
As for your site it doesn't really matter to me.
While I do read most of your reviews, I do like the convenience of the letter grade, for do or die situations where there isn't enough time to read the entire review. And, as previously stated, it doesn't even have to be a letter. Any visual that will let me know right away will suffice.
We need grades so that we could personally know what we are getting without actually knowing its contents in the review…
Any form of grading is fine with me…
i like the grades. not to compare…but to fianize your view on the film. an A+ film, is a near masterpiece. An A- film is near perfect, with some minor flaws. an A film is an all around great movie experience. it is very hard to get across these small differences, when dealing with film reviews.
that's why i like what reviewers, on say "pitchfork" do. (which is a music review site, not movies…). giving films a numerical grade, with a decimal point, seems to be easier than a scale of simply 1-10.
just my opinion.
my comment: 6.8
the idea i was trying to get across: 8.9
Okay, wow… I never expected 191 people to vote and I certainly didn't expect to come home from a day at the golf course to see 155 of those 191 votes to be in favor of reinstating the grades…
I haven't read through all the comments yet as I just got back in, but I am going to and everything will be taken under advisement. Based on this response grades are very likely to return and will probably be added to the reviews from this past Friday, but I still hope to find an alternative that continues to imply and overall impression.
Thanks so much for the response and continue to add your thoughts. They are what keeps this site running!
BTW, just based on this alone it goes to show the readers around here are the #1 thing that keeps me going on a daily basis!
Why interpret – in a single letter – your own words?
Well I guess people want you to go easy on the simple minds.
Also, if people don’t like letter grades because they feel like it finalizes a film or makes an opinion concrete on the matter, then what’s the point of Awards Season isn’t it doing the same thing? Instead of giving out A’s they give out Oscars to the best film of the year, best performance etc.
And no offense to anyone, but if you have a huge problem with letter grades then you’re probably putting too much weight on them yourself. It’s like when people complain about the rankings on imdb, seriously who cares? I haven’t always agreed with Brad’s reviews or grades, but I’m not going to nitpick at him about them because it’s HIS opinion and not MINE.
I agree with you completely on the no letter gading system… How can one define between a B+ and an A-?? What is the criteria for an A+ film?? By grading a film A+ does that mean it is the new The Godfather or City of God?? Or what does a film have to do to garner such a grade?? By simply focusing on the words a film can be taken in context to it's own genre. For example a film such as 500 Hundred Days of Summer could get a grade of A-, while 500 Days of Summer is an innovative and respectul, though glorified, romantic comedy, it good never be seen in the same light as a weightier film such as No Country for Old Men. Does that mean that No Country for Old Men should recieve an A+?? And as a result does this mean that No Country for Old Men is as good as say The Godfather? By grading films we risk diluting the grade of a true all time classic, because there is no way we can compare a recent release to a time honored classic such as The Godfather. This is my first post on any film site, for the simple reason that i do not have to give my opinion on any film in particular or comment on the merits of a certain actor but instead get to comment on a grading system that supports a grade heavy mentality, where the argument(mostly your argument Brad) is forgotten and only the grade is remembered or referenced by comments.
Absolutrly Brad,
Democracy has proven to be the best system yet again as the majority (including me) wants grading back! So please grade the movies you reviewed this week.
to the people who think that a letter grade excessively and sometimes unjustly influences the audiences's decision whether to watch a particular movie, or not, i have to disagree with you, there have been time where i watched and enjoyed movies that were graded c or d, and sometimes walked away from some that were graded A or A+, at the end its all about which movie intrigues me more.