Critics Have Little-to-Nothing To Do With Box-Office Success
So please stop with the comparisons
When people say a movie is "critic-proof" it really doesn't mean anything since reviews for movies have very little to do with determining whether or not the majority of people are going to go see a movie. With that said, what is published in David Germain's AP story "'Transformers': Worst-reviewed $400 million hit?" means absolutely nothing. Especially the line reading:
"Critics and mainstream crowds often disagree, but Revenge of the Fallen sets a new standard for the gulf between what reviewers and mass audiences like."
This line insinuates everyone that went to see Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen this weekend liked it. Of course, the article backs things up saying, "According to Paramount's exit polls, 91 percent of the audience thought the sequel was as good as or better than the first Transformers, which received far better reviews." That sentence is so loaded with misconceptions it's staggering as it shows a complete lack of knowledge when it comes to movie watching.
Transformers is routinely referred to as "big dumb fun" and when it comes to "big dumb fun" there is a very short shelf life. Audience perception of a film is not generated in its opening weekend, it's created over time. Germain goes on in his article to reference previous films that reached the $400 million domestic box-office mark as that is where he sees Revenge of the Fallen headed. He begins comparing the movie to the likes of The Dark Knight, Spider-Man, E.T. the Extra-terrestrial, Star Wars, Shrek 2 and Titanic. The matter in question here is will Revenge of the Fallen be able to sustain its dominance?
Last summer The Dark Knight remained at the top of the box-office charts for four consecutive weeks, Shrek 2 and Spider-Man only sustained two week dominance, Star Wars: Episode I – The Phantom Menace lasted for three and the all-time king is Titanic with 15 weekends at the top of the box-office.
Let's not forget the first Transformers, which Germain is so quick to point out received better reviews than Revenge of the Fallen. It opened at number one as well only to fall to #2 in its second weekend to Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix. Will Revenge of the Fallen be able to withstand this week's Ice Age: Dawn of the Dinosaurs and Public Enemies? The last Ice Age opened to $68 million and I would think this one would do the same or better. Can Revenge of the Fallen match that?
Germain already tells us Revenge of the Fallen is getting great word of mouth saying, "Even after its whopping $60.6 million opening day, Revenge of the Fallen was packing theaters, a sign that unlike critics, who mostly hated the movie, audiences felt they were getting their money's worth and were giving the flick good word of mouth." This is in despite of the fact online ticket retailers were quoting figures almost two weeks in advance of the film's release saying showings were already sold out. Not sure how much word of mouth counts when people have already made up their mind to go see it, not to mention reviews weren't even online yet.
Perhaps the most twisted part of the whole article is the following:
Critics "forget what the goal of the movie was. The goal of the movie is to entertain and have fun," said Rob Moore, vice chairman of Paramount, which is distributing "Transformers" for DreamWorks. "What the audience tells us is, 'We couldn't be more entertained and having more fun.' They kind of roll their eyes at the critics and say, 'You have no idea what you're talking about.'"
So you are telling me Paramount isn't talking bad about their own movie? Shocker!
Here's the deal, audiences were going to see this no matter what. Reviews only helped raise the awareness. Good or bad, it didn't matter. Kids were just getting out of school and parents needed someplace to unload them. Transformers was already a familiar franchise and something parents could take their kids to see.
Of all the films Germain mentioned in his article, I wonder if he believes general audiences will look back at Revenge of the Fallen and compare it fondly to The Dark Knight, E.T. the Extra-terrestrial, Star Wars and Titanic. If you wanted to use another public meter of determining an audience's perception of the film take a peek at IMDb and compare ratings for the first Transformers and those for Revenge of a Fallen, a film Paramount is trying to tell us audiences enjoy more than the first one (no account for short term memory considered).
The first Transformers currently sits with a 7.4 rating compared to Revenge of the Fallen's already lower 6.7 rating, and as most watchers of IMDb know these ratings typically start out high only to slowly fall and level off over time. Basically, as time wears on the general consensus for a film comes down to how it is remembered, not how much money it made one day ago. If it were the other way around Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull would be considered the best film in the Indy franchise… not sure about you, but that isn't exactly how I see things.
To the point, critics have nothing to do with how a film does at the box-office. They are merely a tool for awareness and conversation starters. Critics see a movie, audiences see a movie and the film is discussed and its place in history is decided down the line. Some films will always be seen by more people; it's a fact that has nothing to do with reviews. The top spots at the box-office have always been reserved for the films that manage to appeal to the widest range of audience members. Revenge of the Fallen managed just that and just happened to not be liked by critics.
When I see people defending it the most common comment I see is something along the lines of "I think people expect too much" and "It's based on a cartoon, what did you expect?" This sounds to me like a person that got exactly as much out of the film as critics did, but were able to accept its flaws while others could not. Totally fair, but when you have to admit a film is bad in order to tell people it's good what is that really saying?
The consensus opinion at RottenTomatoes says, "Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen is a noisy, underplotted, and overlong special effects extravaganza that lacks a human touch." I don't think anyone will argue with that…
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Worst film i've seen this year by far. Unfunny, boring and tedious.
I love reading reviews and I'm not one of those morons that 'argue' that critics know nothing about movies and, if Roger Ebert says a movie is bad, it means it's good. :-/
However, for me it's pretty obvious what you say, just because a movie received abysmal reviews, it doesn't mean it's gonna fail. Nor the other way around.
Come on, do people really believe The Dark Knight made $160 million because of the Rotten Tomatoes rating? And that it managed to reach $500 million (a figure NO WAY IN HELL Transformers 2 will top) for no other reason than the fact the audience loved it and good word of mouth started taking effect over an already succesful opening?
As shocked as I am due to the fact that such an awful movie is being such a hit, that's kind what people expected, right? Weren't many saying it could break The Dark Knight's record weeks ago already? As far as I remember, the real surprise over here is the fact how BAD this movie turned out to be, not how succesful.
Anyway, let's wait for monday's numbers, maybe they'll show how the box-office will behave in the upcoming weeks. Spider-Man 3 took a 75% tumble. I expect nothing less from this piece of 'everyone knows what'.
by the way, I read the article you quote before reading yours and I thought I was reading a hater/troll from the IMDb forum. lol
it's a fact this movie is bad, but to use such lousy arguments… for a journalistic article?! dear god!
I wish these critics would stop saying Transformers 2 was "lacking plot" and come up with a better storyline for this movie. Seriously, can anyone out there take the premise of talking alien robots from space into a more serious, credible plot. Anyone? Please?
I'm sick of hearing people say that the plot for Transformers 2 is not that great. Really??? Anybody go into this movie looking for plot and expecting a grand tale? After seeing the first movie, did people not know what to expect?
"This sounds to me like a person that got exactly as much out of the film as critics did, but were able to accept its flaws while others could not."
Maybe, but the person who accepted its flaws walked into the theater EXPECTING flaws. Did anyone go see this expecting another Dark Knight? And yes, it is derived from a cartoon, that can't be ignored. Batman comes from comics, and The Dark Knight is hailed as a masterpiece. I loved that movie, but there were plenty of flaws people accepted (ex: a multi-billionaire vigilante who dresses up as a Bat to fight crime and gets away with it, for one).
So again, all the ones who found the plot for this movie terrible, how would you have made it more credible, watchable, enjoyable etc…?
I couldn't agree with you more. And while I have yet to see "Revenge of the Fallen", I know I will hate, as I did the first. But it's a summer blockbuster and unavoidable which is the reason I have a ticket for Wednesday. And exactly as you stated, I know what to expect, so I am just going to enjoy what I can and leave it at that. Good article.
In most major markets, a lot of the tickets sold for the first 5 days of Revenge of the Fallen would have been purchased prior to the Tuesday/Wednesday onslaught of bad reviews. Besides, if you're going to see a terrible movie on the big screen, might as well be one with giant robots fighting.
Germain (and a few other critics) should keep in mind that regular folk have to put money down before they're allowed to watch a movie, making the short term (first weekend) box office numbers a poor indicator of public opinion.
@Roger: You want a bad movie, and you're willing to reward films that aim for very little… and hit it. No harm in that, but let the rest of us who like progress have some room to breathe too.
Ironically there have been worst films with similiar success. The Davinci Code also got a cold thrashing by critics, but that flick still made around 220mill domestically and over 750mill worldwide. Another example I can think of is Ghost Rider which I thought was one of th worst movies of 07 still made 115mill at the B.O with a budget of only 100mill. Then most recently there's that effing awful Paul Blart: Mall Cop movie that made nearly 150mill domestic, but is considered by most one of the worst films of 09 so far. I think you all get what I'm trying to say, but just don't be too suprised when bad movies make alot money because it happens all the time. BTW each of the moies I listed are much worse than T2 imo.
Peace Out !
@laremy:
I don't want a "bad movie", but why is everyone picking on the one thing this movie is not there for and it is plot.
And if you're looking for progress, why did you even bother going to see Transformers 2?
@Roger
I'm not a filmmaker, but as far as I know, if you're telling a story, your story MUST have a story. =P
If someone makes a movie without a plot, with a story that makes no sense at all and characters that acts and reacts with no sense of anything whatsoever all the time, you're making a bad movie.
I know there are people who like to watch movies for special effects, and awesome action sequences, and hot babes and cool robots and stuff like that… Each on its own.
But yes, it's a cientific fact, a movie without a plot is not a movie. It's an overlong videoclip (thought even musical videoclips usually have plots, but not all of them)
In 13 minutes, 'Thriller' had more story than Transformers 2 with 150.
And by God, we're talking about a musical with zombies dancing. :/
Michael Jackson is better storyteller than Michael Bay!
A movie without a plot is like food without seasoning
Transformers Revenge of the Fallen wasn't that bad, the critics are lame, ROTF and Star Trek are two of best movies of the summer. did anyone else see R2D2 in ROTF
LOL.
Transformer 2 isn't fun or entertainment! that gave me an headache
@Roger: I was forced to. I won't make that mistake again. But seriously, defending mediocre entertainment has got to get old at some point, no? You sure you don't want to switch positions and like good movies instead? It's not too late.
Transformers 2 was a good movie. The movie does have a plot, obviously some ppl can't pay attention or don't know what a plot is…that being said it could of been better, but all the elements were there and it rocked…nuff said, my god it's a MOVIE!
@Roger: Well, I think I'm more upset that it was an insult to the intelligence of its audience. There are plenty of big budget pictures that have a strong plot, and if they don't, they give me solid characters. I think "big, dumb fun" is a cop out.
How could we have had more plot in this movie, before we get there, why don't we start with better characters. Really? The main conflict between our two leads is that they won't say I love you. I think there would be a little more there, a girl raised with a father in jail from the wrong side of the tracks, and a guy who is a bit nebbish from the suburbs. A romance that shouldn't exist that does because of alien robots. A lot to be played with here. Solid characters can help overcome flaws (see: The Dark Knight and Star Trek). Oh, and those are intelligent characters.
As far as plot, let's build up the Fallen a little more. He's an afterthought. His "revenge" seemed pointless (the Primes are the ones who betrayed them and they are all dead. So his vengeance would be with Optimus the last prime. So, to get his revenge he decides to blow up the earth to get energon. Not a revenge plot per se, just doing what he was there to do in the first place.) How can we expand a better plot, how about the idea that the Decepticons and the Autobots are fighting a war that is not ours. They brought that concept up at the beginning and Optimus says that he would leave. Now, the Autobots gone, we have to deal with the Decepticons on our own, only to have Sam figure out a way to contact Optimus to save Earth, and the robots show up at the end to save the day. Oh, and the Optimus/Fallen battle would last longer than one minute. Again, a more intelligent, perhaps character driven plot, and better than what we got in the movie. The final battle is a giant storytelling flaw where all the build up leads to that one minute battle. The Fallen is our lead villain, and needed better development. I'm more than willing to give the movie the benefit of the doubt if the villain is stronger. Even Megatron comes off as a putz, if they developed the Starscream/Megatron dynamic, we would have had a better movie, but the conflict there now is just a reminder of the cartoons. Cartoons which had better plots by the way.
And I could go on with ways to improve this movie, including having jokes that don't feel stale and hacky (really, a joke about a "heavy breather" on the phone, a robot humping a character's leg, the Jewish deli, and a mime. A mime joke?)
We as an audience are intelligent, and you look at the Bourne movies or The Dark Knight, or even the Harry Potter movies. These are spectacles that respect its audience, not one that says, Hey you're coming to see it anyway, we'll do whatever we want. I just want better films, and I may have enjoyed Transformers 2 if not for Star Trek, or even Up or The Hangover. Strong characters with solid plots and fresh, original humor. We deserve better than what the Transformers delivered us.
@caro: If that movie gave you a headache then you shouldn't leave your retirement home again..
Why everyone here is comparing TF2 to TDK?
They absolute have nothing else in common than being super blockbusters with gigantic debuts at the box office. I'm also sick of the amount of shit TF2 is receiving. It's obviously not as good as TDK, but do you really think that the cause people is going to see the movie is beacause of it's oustanding plot and story?
COME ON!!! people is going just because they want amazing effects into their veins, a 2 and a half hour of adrenaline, of powerful, colorful, splendid and big speaking robots fighting each other, of Optimus Prime v/s Megatron, of explosions, action, Megan Fox, etc … the story and plot to them is something not so relevant. TF2 is a movie with an intention thar was always commercial, never artistic. I also believe that next weekend is going to suffer a huge drop, but that's NOT GOING TO BE due to bad word of mouth, due to critics and bad reviews, not for Johnny Depp, nor for Scrat and not beacause anything like that. The main, and in fact THE ONLY reason for which next weekend is going to collapse is simple beacause everyone who wanted to see the movie and have a 2 and a half hour of spectacular speaking robots, amazing effects and explosions, will already have done so.
@Aaron Sanchez: Huh? Unavoidable?!? Somehow I think I can do some really, really fancy footwork and avoid this load of excrement. I think yoiu need a fuller life. If you find a bad movie unavoidable than try to read, rent a classic movie, go for a hike, and/or engage some friends in conversation.
There is a good chunk of the moviegoing public that don't rush out to see movies on opening weekend. Those people are more judicious with their time and money for moviegoing and rely on word of mouth from close acquaintances in selecting which movie they will go out and see.
@Leandro Dubost:
The movie did have a plot. Not the STRONGEST plot, but there was a story involved, so don't play dumb.
@laremy:
I do enjoy good movies, what you said made sense. I'm not praising this movie, nor am I glorifying it any more than it deserves. I just believe that it doesn't need to get ripped on based on plot because this movie obviously has a weak plot and storyline, my question is why are people so shocked about that? The first one had a weak story, the second builds from that. Kinda saw it coming no? It's like biting into a rotten apple then complaining that it isn't sweet enough you know? That movie is what it is, and if people don't like it that's perfectly fine.
And I'm not buying that you were "forced" to see what was one of the most talked about movies of the summer…you would have seen it at one point.
@TheCheckSpot:
I agree with you, but then going with re-tooling characters as well, you're gonna have to re-create a story with Transformers 1 because 2 built off of 1. And hey, maybe they could have come up with a stronger story with the first movie which would have made the second movie a little more tolerable for some.
But I find "big, dumb fun" isn't a cop out if that's what you're going for. I mean they used the same exact formula as the first movie. You can't blame these guys for making a stupid movie if that was what they were aiming for (like Laremy said, they aimed low and hit it).
All I'm saying is that you can only go so far with this movie. Talking robot aliens from space can only have so much of a deep story or plot.
And besides the fact, the people/critics who ripped on this movie (Brad, Laremy, etc…) were going into the theater with negative thoughts already. If you disliked the first Transformers, there's no way in hell you'll like the second one, and that goes for anyone.
"And besides the fact, the people/critics who ripped on this movie (Brad, Laremy, etc…) were going into the theater with negative thoughts already. If you disliked the first Transformers, there's no way in hell you'll like the second one, and that goes for anyone."
That also goes the other way around.
@Ian:
Not really, I have plenty of friends that saw the movie with me and preferred the first movie.
But no one will ever like the second one and hate the first one cuz it's just more of the same.
I don't feel like writing a huge rant on TF2 and critics and box office, but it's pretty obvious few are going to like one this more than the first. And that's something critics and audiences on. Look at the 57% the first one got.
Personally, there was a part of me that thought this film was absolute shit and another part of me that kinda enjoyed myself. I gave it a mixed review overall but I think my opinion on it is just going down.
@Roger: Yes, it does go the other way around. People went in to see it having already programmed themselves to love it and proclaim it as even better than it's predecessor.
A little off topic, but why do people like to say, "It's based off a cartoon (or comic book, what do you expect?" So apparently The Dark Knight sucks, and DragonballZ (the anime) is not "the greatest action cartoon ever made!" I'm sorry but this is a a terrible thing to ever say.
The movie was forgettable. It had it's moments, but they went way overboard with the attempts at comedy. The first hour was rather tolerable, but the ensuing hour and a half was just indulgent, I couldn't wait for it to end. I'll be very interested to see how this holds up in the coming weeks.
Michael Bay + Transformers = Bad story BUT Tons of fun and action more hot girls sweet cars, and tons of explosion. Fun and entertaining movie, just switch off your so called movie criticism but just enjoy the movie and thats what people did.
There's nothing more stupid than the statement "Switch of your brain so you can enjoy the movie…." What, should people just go ahead and cut their tongues out so they can enjoy eating dog food?
@Patricia: Yeah, unavoidable. It's like looking at a car accident. You want to look away, but you can't. You have to see what all the fuss is about.
"If you find a bad movie unavoidable than try to read" It's "then," no?
Moreover on the critic-proof theory, don't good reviews tend to help the smaller movies like Away We Go, Juno, and Little Miss Sunshine?
I can't see how everyone is calling this movie a "bad movie." I went to go see the midnight show of it with the intent to give it a real chance. I wasn't overly impressed with the first movie but thought that even with the bad reviews the second one had potential. You know what? I loved the plot/storyline, the action, and the background love story. And I wasn't alone, after the movie ended (sold out show btw) almost the entire audience gave it a standing ovation. The 7 other friends I went to go see it with enjoyed every minute of it as well. None of us could even take a trip to the bathroom we were so completely drawn into the movie. I also can't understand why people are comparing this movie to the Dark Knight. Simply because of similarities in box office gross and major differences in critics opinion. If critic opinion were the same as audience opinion 80% of the people in the theatres would have left horribly trashing the movie. And I detest people who just follow the crowds. Stand up for your OWN opinions people. In a year after this movie becomes one of the highest grossing movies of all-time (and yes I do believe it will happen because I know many people who are going to see it next weekend they just dont like opening weekend crowds), 90% of the people who are bad mouthing this movie will be talking about it as one of the greatest!
PS. – If you haven't seen the movie, don't trash it. Go see it and make up your own **** mind. And 2 things Brad…Have you even seen the movie yourself? And Yes I will argue with the fact that this movie was not overlong and defintiely not underplotted, we didnt even realize how long the movie was until we saw it was almost 3 am walking out. The forest scene in the middle of the movie rocked me and the ending clearly pointed at a third movie which I am now eagerly anticipating. The movie was also pretty funny, anyone who has seen it has to admit that the two little redneck-gangsta-lookin robots and John Turturro were funny as ****.
@Adam: Yes, and here is my review.
As for your statement saying, "90% of the people who are bad mouthing this movie will be talking about it as one of the greatest!" I actually think the exact opposite will happen, but only time will tell. Thanks for commenting and visiting.
@Eric: "Like a trainwreck" Yes, I'll grant you that. Alot of people are going to see this just to see what all the hype is about. The difference is that a train wreck plops itself before you, but this wreck would require me to use my precious time to drive over and sit through the hour, hour 1/2 without bolting for the door, as well as forking over my hard earned money. Amazing that millions and millions of dollars worth of profit will be based on such a spurious motivation. Worst yet, it will inspire dozens and dozens of similarly mindless messes to be made for years to come. Such is the state of modern cinema.
And yes, "then" not "than". If you've seen the movie "Breach," when Eric O'Neal meets the master spy he's been tasked to get the goods on, Robert Hanssen, they play a game called "4 Truths and a Lie" during which Eric says, "There are two words I consistently misspell." Well there are two sets of words I consistently interchange when typing very fast and one set is "then" and "than." (The other set is "you" and "your.") Mea culpa.
Good article. Completely agree. Everyone has their guilty pleasures and different tastes but let's not defend bad movie making.
There are well-made movies I have not particularly enjoyed and there have been terrible movies I've enjoyed for one reason or the other. Those opinions are entirely different from an objective appraisal of movies that form part of a cultural heritage of a society.
Just like there are foods we love to eat and majority enjoy but we don't promote them as good food.
Having said that, critics sometimes can be subjective in their opinions and their opinions can be influenced by their particular tastes but they do more good than harm anyway and as someone said, they serve to point out things for consideration and encourage discussions or more scrutiny but we can choose to agree or disagree, no big deal.
I saw the first transformers, really enjoyed it but thought the story was weak and it was very cheesy and corny with the whole US army stuff. Still I left with a good feeling and felt I spent my money well. Not seeing this one, just because. I somehow it will have long legs, but I could be wrong. Whatever, no need getting all personal, at least we all agree it was dumb, fun or not.
@Phil:
Ok, but there are some who liked the first and liked the second, some who liked the first and disliked the second. People's tastes go every way and I don't think some left that theater forcing themselves to like it just because they liked the first movie.
I remember reading Brad's review for Fired Up! A few months back. And even though I just saw it last night, I personally found it boring and I remember Brad enjoyed it. The last paragraph of his theatrical review sums it up perfectly:
"On a whole, the good outweighs the bad in Fired Up!, much to my surprise and satisfaction. You can never go into a film like this expecting too much because it will always manage to disappoint, but if you go into them expecting the same-old same-old they can surprise you every so often. This film is by no means a revelation, but I at least had a good time while I watched it, which is all you can really ask for from a film of this ilk."
I believe that's exactly how I viewed Transformers 2. I was expecting the same stuff, I ended up enjoying it more than I thought I would but I had a good time watching it "which is all you can really ask for from a film of this ilk."
It doesn't mean I defend bad movies or should start liking good movies, I just don't need to analyze something like plot for this kind of movie when I know it's weak before even walking into the theater.
I think critics are missing one important thing. This movie is of its own action genre. I have seen tons of sword fights, space ships, matrix like fist fights, car chases, gun battles, and yes, super heroes too.
However, I have only seen giant robots that can transform realistically into a car once, and that was in 2007. And that was really cool.
And since no other movie has been able to do that except the sequel. I watched that too. And did it deliver? Sure, because I got to see even more robots that can transform duking it out.
In that sense, the transformers series visually is pretty unique as an action series. Its got no competition! Which other action movie can give me giant transforming robots other than transformers?
Maybe at some point, people will get tired and jaded enough with transforming robots that they will demand that other than that, such movies have to come with stuff like plot, etc. But until then, that alone is enough to keep people like me going back!
The average movie goer sees this clearly. Transformers offers them a visually unique experience. Are movie critics recognising this?
@John:
Good point buddy, someone who enjoyed it for what it was and didn't over analyze.
@Patricia: Perhaps a train wreck is a bad reference, even with trains you need to be near one in order to see it. Transformers is more akin to a car accident since those happen most everywhere. What you described is exactly what makes going to the movies fun! Driving and waiting and sitting with complete strangers to either collectively love or hate. Granted, for this movie the crowd will be split on this particular movie. Plus, if you don't want your hard earned money being spent on Transformers, have a little fun. You and a buddy buy a ticket for a movie that is a little more deserving–Up– then sneak around to Transformers. It's a good way to kill a few hours.
"Breach" the one with Chris Cooper? I've seen it, don't remember it. That's my biggest problem with people my age and the stupid "lol" and letter replacing, really gets my goat.
@John: True, but don't you want more from the film. After all, if all you want is transforming robots, you can watch the trailer online. Delivers the same thing and it avoids going into the stuff that didn't work.
I was excited to see the movie. I love Transformers the series and even the animated movie. I even enjoyed the Michael Bay original. But I was hoping for more. And I got a lot less. Spectacle can have story, and once you're bored with the transforming robots, well, it we need something to make up for it. I'm guessing that there is about thirty minutes of actual transforming, which is generous number. So, what do we do about the rest of the film.
If you go back to summers of old and look at Jaws, Star Wars, Raiders of the Lost Ark, these were spectacles that had story and great characters, and that's why these films are still remembered to this day. Now, I've already forgotten much of what happened in the second and third Pirates of the Caribbean movie. Hollywood gets the wrong idea. The spectacle and cool robots from the first Transformers is what made it a cool, unique film at the time. But it doesn't hold up anymore. Why? Lack of character and story. This one will do the same thing. By next year, we'll be all excited about the next spectacle and put this one in the history books, forgetting about even seeing the film.
I'm not angry that this is doing well. It was always going to do well. I'm angry that this is what Michael Bay thinks of us. It's lazy writing, surprisingly coming from guys who wrote Star Trek nonetheless. And as a comedian, I'm insulted that they would just throw out horrid jokes that would get booed at a comedy club. I was waiting for the bad airline food joke to be added. I think I was insulted.
Of course, taste is all subjective. What I loathe, others will love, and what someone loathes I could very well love. I don't think I overanalyze the movie too much. I just want one that entertains and doesn't insult me. Transformers 2 did not do that for me. Color me disappointed.
@Eric: Oh dear, do I come off as stogy and not fun loving? So sorry, I saw the first Transformers and laughed my ass off. I thought it was great camp. But my viewing time is very limited. My free time in expansive increments is rare. I have little bits of free time which I use to comments on interesting sites and I watch alot of DVD's which can be stopped and started at my leisure or watched in their entirety at odd times. I do miss the group experience at the theatre and do it whenever I can. But I'm not wasting that effort on a film of this caliber.
Yes, "Breach" with Chris Cooper. Very good movie.
Seriously, the quoted article is pretty 'unreliable', to put it lightly, considering, most of it´s information, including exit polls, came from the studio that made the movie, not exactly impartial.
I went to see with a friend, and she liked it a lot, but I didn't, I don't know, kinda lame and predictable the ending at the same time.
@ The Check Spot.
Erm, I went to see this on a Monday, and the place was pretty well filled considering it was Monday afternoon. People will talking, joking before the movie and I thought I wouldn't be able to enjoy it in peace. But throughout the whole movie, I didn't hear a single word other than giggles and laughter when the movie had it funny moments from the people around me. Everyone was just watching the show. And considering its an over 2 hr show, that's quite an achievement.
I also felt a sense of awesomeness and uplighting when I saw the military mobilising as the calvary was being called in. I felt a moment of heartache when Optimus Prime was killed trying to protect Sam. Yet another tugging feeling happened when his father didn't want to let him go, but had to. Say what you like, the movie had its moments. It tugged my heart more in some moments like these than some action movies that would probably have been rated more highly by critics. It had all these, plus all the cool unique transforming robot sequences too.
Also, if it was really that bad, people wouldn't have waited until the last 20 minutes for the finale. They wouldn't have had the patience. It was just nowhere near as bad as how many critics made it out to be.
Something that is targeted at kids to teenagers, one of the demographics with the shortest possible attention span, and yet hold it for over 2 hours, and have them come out of it saying they enjoyed it. You got to respect that.
I don't know whether you have kids. I do, keeping kids entertained for over 2 hours is not easy! Keeping them not only entertained, but totally absorbed" Now, that is an accomplishment!
And the laughter. The movie, for an action flick, drew more laughter than I have heard at some comedies before. So, it had its genuinely light hearted moments too.
So, unique transforming action sequences, heart tugging "drama" moments, plus laughter inducing light moments all drawn together over a 2 hr show that wasn't boring. I can think of a lot of action shows that were far less unique (yay, more car chases and gun fights) with little laughter (too serious for their own good), and no heart tugging moments even (trying too hard at a plot and failing).
In the end, I stand by my original point. It didn't have oscar winning plot, humor, etc. But what it did have was good enough such that the true stars of the movie, those amazing and unique transforming action sequences then just brought it to a whole new level such that it went from just average or above average, to good.
Some critics I read bemoan the lack of creative story. Then what about the many mediocre action shows that have a lack of creative action sequences? And since this is obviously an action show, which do you think should carry a much bigger weight, unique plot or unique action sequences?
@Patricia: Not really, no.
Oh me too, I loved the first Transformers–particularly because the movie ended up being a comedy. I was expecting the same fun in the second one and I didn't get it. On almost every technical level the film succeeds, but the film is poorly written and poorly acted. The jokes are there but they are too crass for the slapstick that the first one had. At times the movie tries too hard to be funny and explosive at the same time.
I think this movie will be up for discussion for a while because of the great schism that it has created between fans and critics. You should free up some time to see it, not because it's "the second coming of cinema" or anything but because you can truly join in on the discussion.
That's the only reason I saw it. I never knock a film until I have seen it.
I'm pretty sure you can bring some valid points to the racist robot accusations against the film–which most of the critics are hounding on. I don't think they are racist for one main reason, the film and its makers were too stupid to realize that the characters were potentially offensive. If Pixar had to jive-talkin', gold toothed, illiterate characters everyone would be up in arms over it. That's the only reason I recommend you see it, just so a good discussion about the state of modern cinema can come out of it. (I have been dying to discuss that for a while now)
@Kurt: Money talks and the movie is making money cause they just enjoy watching the movie for what it is, majority of the people just want 2 enjoy, if your looking for movies that have good story and stuff they should just wait for the hurt locker, TRANSFORMERS IS NOT SUPOUSE TO WIN ANY OSCAR AWARDS, ITS JUST A MOVIE TO BE ENTERTAINMENT. Come on its transformers, people payed to watch robots fighting and things blowing up, what were you expecting??? You cant satisfy everyone but money talks
@John: HELLLLLLL YEEEEAH!!! thank you there is no better way to say then what you wrote.
I saw T2: RotF today and I have to say I was mightily disappointed. Not at the effects or the action sequences, both of which were top notch, but at the overall experience. I left the theater feeling curiously unfulfilled.
The plot was fairly rudimentary, but as has been commented earlier, this was always meant to be pure escapist and there isn't anything wrong with that particularly. I just prefer that a movie at least make some internal sense – gigantic machines inside of pyramids that we somehow haven't run into in 2,000 years of exploration? Come on now.
I also thought that the movie, which is marketed as family-friendly, was a bit rough for younger audiences. There are a lot of people getting "blowed up real good", as SCTV might have said, and images of drowned sailors. This is definitely a movie for teenaged boys and young adult males primarily – again, not a bad thing in and of itself.
Still, I would expect better. Star Trek was better. The first Transformers was more entertaining, at least to my mind. This didn't have to be Juno, or The Reader but I tend to appreciate movies that at least take the time to tell a decent story, or at least credit their audiences to be more discerning. That's why great summer movies like Iron Man, The Dark Knight and (eventually) Star Trek will wind up in my DVD collection and it's unlikely that Revenge of the Fallen will.
Funny how the subject turned from how critics don't influence box office to a debate on the merits of Transformers. To the original question, I do think that hype and anticipation tend to affect box office far more than reviews do, although good critical reception may affect smaller, indie-type movies more than big blockbusters that have audiences built-in.
@Brad Brevet: That was an interesting review, although perhaps a little biased from the get-go "To expect Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen to be anything more than a mindless summer film with tons of explosions, CGI and slow-motion shots dedicated to Megan Fox is to go into this film set up for disappointment…This time around I expected less and Bay didn't fail me as I appropriately prepared myself for what was to come." I guess that is what makes movies so much fun. The differences in opinions between what people can relate to aas well as people's expectations vs. people's experiences. As for how the transformers will fair in the future…I believe that Transformers is a guilty pleasure and most people cannot or will not admit it. Perhaps I am wrong or not but either way I still believe it is a movie that will be debated for a while to come.
@John: Dude, I'm with Markymark that statement was dead on.
I just went to go see the movie for my second time with some friends (first time for them) in Digital IMAX and even on it's second weekend the theatre was still packed…not sold out mind you but still not many seats open. I went in knowing what happens and still loved it because I caught things I completely missed the first time around, the jokes were still funny, the action was still amazing and the people I went with loved it and we had a 30 minute discussion about it on the way home and which parts were our favorites. I truly believe that it can take Ice Age 3 and Public Enemies this weekend but I guess we will see soon enough.
Mojo comment "The prime reason for Revenge of the Fallen's success was its predecessor, as was the case with Pirates of the Caribbean and other major franchises. Regardless of its actual quality, the first Transformers was a crowd pleaser, drawing $319.2 million by the end of its run. It built on the 1980s toy and cartoon brand with the human entry point of a kid and his first car and with the spectacle and adventure of an alien invasion and disaster event movie. The good will equity for that movie was so high that about all the marketing for the sequel had to do was promise more giant-sized robot mayhem."