Filed under: Editorials

Will Superhero Movies Soon Leave General Audiences in the Dust?

Green what? Watchmen who?

Green Lantern

Today it was announced by Variety that GoldenEye, Mask of Zorro and Casino Royale helmer Martin Campbell is in negotiations to direct Green Lantern, a live-action film based on the DC Comics hero. Apparently this is a sign that Warner Bros. fully intends to make Lantern a top priority as its next hopeful superhero franchise. However, I can't help but feel like I am in the dark on this one and may be on all subsequent superhero movies from here on out. After all, I have never read a single comic book in my life outside of reading "Watchmen" once as well as Book One of Frank Miller's "Sin City" series, "The Hard Goodbye." So, when people start talking about Green Lanterns, Green Arrows and all the recent mumbo jumbo saying Mickey Rourke is not the Crimson Dynamo in Iron Man 2 I get this blank stare plastered on my face as all of it washes over me with no idea as to what anyone is talking about and I can't help but wonder if general audiences are with me on this.

From my perspective, the superheroes I know and recognize include Superman, Batman, The Incredible Hulk and Spider-Man. Obviously movies have introduced me to the likes of Ghost Rider, Daredevil, Elektra, the Fantastic Four and Iron Man but if you look at those last five examples you will see how and why the audience disconnects from the lesser known superheroes and the big screen treatment they receive.

First, let's look at Superman, Batman, The Incredible Hulk and Spider-Man. These four are so well known you could almost put anyone in the lead roles and you will have a hit on your hands. This was pretty much proven by the fact the second Hulk movie made only $2 million more than the first one, which one was better I will leave to you as my opinion on that doesn't matter right now. The point is the audience knows these characters and is going to go check them out no matter what. That isn't to say they will return for seconds if the movie doesn't sit well with them, but you can pretty much count on opening weekends being quite strong with these four and a standard superhero box-office number guaranteed — such as something around $130-150 million for mediocre and then who knows how high if it is exceptional.

Now, with heroes such as Ghost Rider, Daredevil, Elektra, the Fantastic Four and Iron Man we have noticeably different approaches with lesser known heroes.

With Ghost Rider Sony hired name talent as did Fox with Daredevil in the lead roles, but both films pretty much stunk and ended up making $115 million and $102 million respectively. Fox tried to spin-off Daredevil with Elektra, which meant spinning off a stinker into a superhero that was even lesser known and only mustered $24 million. Both Ghost Rider and Daredevil were examples of hoping the name talent sold the film and it would be a stretch to say it worked, and certainly not on any kind of epic scale, especially considering the money that goes into a superhero film for effects, talent and at the end of the day, marketing. Lesson here is half-assed attempts don't work for lesser known heroes even if your stars are recognizable.

Then we have Fantastic Four, which managed to do slightly better than those previously mentioned with $154 million at the box-office the first time around and then $131 million with the sequel. Considering the reported budget for the two films is said to be around $230 million we aren't talking about a huge box-office return, which is probably why we haven't heard word one about a Fantastic Four 3. Many will argue the quality of both films whereas I thought both were satisfactory on first viewing, but I would never want to see either again. Where I think this one managed to bring a few more people into the seats was with the effects on the Chris Evans/Human Torch character and the sex appeal of Jessica Alba, but neither are reasons enough to build a franchise. Of course the worst part of the FF franchise is that the scripts were also half-assed and the films were made as effects-driven films with the story coming in second and what appeared to be an angle to make big returns on opening weekend and then again on DVD. It never felt like a legitimate effort.

Now we come to Iron Man. There is a lot of credit to be thrown around with this film even though I don't love it as much as the fanboys do. Paramount, Marvel and director Jon Favreau went out and hired the likes of Robert Downey Jr., Gwyneth Paltrow, Jeff Bridges and Terrence Howard to star in this film. With a cast like that the only comparison to be made is with Batman Begins and The Dark Knight. It seems Paramount realized the way to bring a lesser known superhero into the mainstream is to actually try and make a real movie as opposed to making an effects driven first weekend blockbuster that fades into the night. After all, the main appeal to the film is Downey as Stark and then the suit and cool effects. Hmmmm, story first… what a novel idea.

The reported budget on Iron Man is $140 million — only $10 million more than Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer — which basically proves it's not about how much money you spend, it's about how you spend it and what you spend it on and even then money doesn't matter if what you are making stinks. Do you think any of those actors would have signed on to a superhero movie if it came with a script that read like Ghost Rider or Daredevil? Sure, Nic Cage and Ben Affleck did, but do we really want to begin those comparisons?

With Warner Bros. set to release Watchmen this March, another relatively unknown to the masses comic book adaptation, and now prepping to bring the Green Lantern to the fold we are beginning to see the formula for bringing unknown superheroes to the general audiences.

Jeffrey Dean Morgan, Malin Akerman, Billy Crudup, Matthew Goode, Patrick Wilson and Jackie Earle Haley in Watchmen
Photo: Warner Bros.

Of course I don't really think Watchmen is a good test since it is rated R and is so wildly different than anything else out there, but what about Green Lantern? Bringing Martin Campbell aboard is certainly a good start and brings an instant credibility to the feature, but from here on out a lot will depend on the script written by Greg Berlanti, Marc Guggenheim and Michael Green.

Obviously I am going to see these films no matter what since it is my job and even general audiences may head out to see it once just because superheroes and special effects are cool, but once isn't enough anymore and bringing your usual effects-impressed friends isn't either. You need to bring the folks that might not typically go to this kind of a movie, Iron Man didn't make $318 million just because the fanboys that go to every superhero movie showed up, it made that money because it was a real movie and people returned to see it and people interested in Downey and the rest of the talent involved showed up, and they showed up because it was worth seeing and had heard so from their friends as opposed to, "Eh, it's okay, the effects were cool."

We are coming to an age where a superhero movie can't be half-assed anymore if it wants to be successfully turned into a highly profitable franchise. Sure, you can keep churning out films like Ghost Rider and Fantastic Four, but they will keep on making $100-130 million each time and unless studios figure out how to make them cheaper it just doesn't seem to pay off.

By the way, I am sure some people would love to bring up X-Men and its profitability, but when you look at the box-office gross to budget comparison you will once again see just how much quality pays off over money spent:

  • X-Men was made for $75 million and earned $157 million
  • X2: X-Men United was made for $110 million and earned $214 million
  • X-Men: The Last Stand was made for $210 million and earned $234 million

Quality always wins out.

All box-office numbers are domestic and come from Box Office Mojo as do the production budget figures used in this editorial.


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Post #1
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Personaly I think X-men had the potential to make more money then it did if more effort was put into them, I havent watched the 3 movies in a while but from what I remember, the first was decent but slow going and not a lot of action, the second was the best of the 3 I would say, but was still leading up to the 3rd…which I thought was terrible.

- JD92
( February 5th, 2009 | 3:32 am )
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Post #2
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Green Lantern is hardly an unknown superhero. You're probably just too young to remember.

- Gundar
( February 5th, 2009 | 5:27 am )
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Post #3
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I think some of the makers did learn a lesson by looking at the franchises mentioned.
Nolan sure got it and it seems Favreau is putting in the effort as well.

With so many superhero flicks people get more demanding and why not.
And having the right people at the helm that are actually into the subject matter themselves helps as wel I think.
The ones that grew up with it instead of the ones saying in interviews that they've read hundreds of comics SINCE they got involved with the movie.

There is hope for the future tho. The Marvel plans to get individual (and established) superhero's (you must've heard of Captain America) out there and then put them together (Avengers).
But Brad is right, they better put some effort in the story or they're gonna have a multi-franchise failure.

@JD92:
the first one had to be a bit slower to have time to establish the characters, which is needed to be interesting for newcomers. And so 2 then could have more action.
3 had the standard sequell mistake, make it bigger and things will be allright…… not.

- rattler76
( February 5th, 2009 | 5:42 am )
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Post #4
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Having just finished reading Watchmen I will predict the fanboys and the curious will make the movie a big hit it's opening weekend and then once word of mouth about the novel's horrible and laughably bad ending hits the streets the box office will collapse.

- Mark
( February 5th, 2009 | 7:37 am )
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Post #5
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I think Green Lantern has the potential to get the attention of the average viewer, even without the background knowledge of the comic books. I believe they need to take the approach of Iron Man and use recognizable names for a relatively unknown product.

Brad if you do some minor research on the character (without having to read all the comics) just so see the powers, origins and key storylines, I'm sure you'll see that the movie could be something interesting if done right. There's gonna be a lot of CGI to showcase the ring's powers, GL flying and anything that will take place in space, but again, if done properly it could be as successful as Iron Man was.

Going a bit off topic, I have always been more of a DC than Marvel fan when reading comics. I don't believe the whole idea of a Justice League movie and incorporating all the characters into the same universe à la Marvel will work for their movies. The main reason being Batman now being a phenomenon on its own, it will not be easy to incorporate his story that people already know to a world of superheroes that are relatively unknown (except for Superman, but that had a hard time to reboot as well).

I think Green Lantern, Wonder Woman, Green Arrow, The Flash etc…should have stand-alone movies and not focus on trying to bring it all together. It will probably be more successful that way.

- Roger
( February 5th, 2009 | 10:31 am )
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Post #6
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This is kind of a silly discussion. ANY movie with a bad script, that relies disproportionately on a big opening weekend, is not ultimately going to produce a sustainable franchise. The fact that you're talking about comic book movies that have done it is essentially meaningless, given that I could come up with a dozen similar examples of any random genre.

I think "Iron Man" is a clear demonstration that movies AREN'T like the comics–that without decades of built-in continuity, the barriers to new viewers are fairly surmountable, as long as you do a decent first feature. "Green Lantern" is no harder to penetrate than "Friday the 13th" or any other film whose character/title has a little baggage and history. It's all about storytelling.

- Russell Burlingame
( February 5th, 2009 | 10:55 am )
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Post #7
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There's no doubt that we are going through a Comic Book filmmaking phase. Once the industry saw how much money the Batman franchise could generate it was inevitable. However, it could be argued that this phase has been building for 20 years. Now they have been joined by video game films. I'm resigned that this is clearly what audiences want and the genre will continue to dominate long past the expiration date sometime in the future. As for obscure characters, just wait until comics are being written just to made into films. Oh wait, Seth Green has already done that.

- Patricia
( February 5th, 2009 | 10:59 am )
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Post #8
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Brad, I highly recommend you check out "Green Lantern: Rebirth" if you want a taste of what the character is like — some epic sci-fi goodness mixed with some good character development. I feel that if done right, GL can be WB's answer to IM and expand the audiences' knowledge that DC just doesn't have Batman, Superman and the JL in their pantheon.

Campbell seems like the right person to do it, now if they can get the right guy to put on Hal's magic ring.

- Matt C
( February 5th, 2009 | 3:47 pm )
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Post #9
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I don't think this trend is going away anytime soon. There have been some bad, bad obscure comic book characters that have been mentioned as a potential movie possibility. Ant-Man? I mean, come on. We can't even get Superman right from a known director. One of the projects that has some heads buzzing though is Deadman. If Guillermo del Toro takes the helm as is rumoured, that could be interesting. We wrote about the topic and all of del Toro's upcoming slate of films here. He is a busy man. In interested, enjoy!

http://thefilmnest.com/2009/02/deadman-hobbit-more-to-keep-guillermo-del-toro-busy-for-years/

The Rake

- The Rake
( February 5th, 2009 | 5:08 pm )
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Post #10
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Your forgetting about worldwide box office!
and studios only keep 55% of the money their movies make!

FROM BRAD: If you read the whole article I am not forgetting anything and on top of that box-office dollars are negotiated on a movie-by-movie basis, there is no set fee.

- JOE
( February 5th, 2009 | 5:14 pm )
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Post #11
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I think the guy who wrotw this story is just being a D*ck!!!!

- Comic book fan
( February 5th, 2009 | 7:49 pm )
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Post #12
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While I agree that making a better superhero movie means more box office intake (like Fantastic Four; with more seriousness, less cheesy subplots about quitting fantastic four, or Ghost Rider, with less Nicolas Cage jokes and a little more horror), the numbers here are very misleading.

The numbers, or "Domestic Box Office," is only what the movies make in the United States Of America. This doesn't include the worldwide box office intake, which would actually show "The Incredible Hulk," not making much of a profit at all. Then it would show "Ghost Rider' being quite profitable.

To this article's writer; not liking superhero movies not done with the quality they deserve is one thing, but lying about box office numbers just like the studios do is not why people like to read on this website. It's because they want to hear the truth, whether or not they liked the movie or not.

That also doesn't include DVD sales. For example, Uwe Boll's movies like "Alone In The Dark" and "Bloodrayne" have made tons of money on DVD despite being box office bombs, both were profitable, and spawned sequels each.

This is not meant to be an attack, but using domestic box office numbers simply is not a good example, unless it is known that foreign rights were sold off like "The Golden Compass" movie rights were.

Being a journalist myself, I know it's not easy to get statistics correct; the point of the article is very well understood. It's just misleading.

- Seiko
( February 5th, 2009 | 8:23 pm )
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Post #13
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If you want to complain about movies? complain about the number of Spoof movies or Horror remakes we seem to get a lot of lately????? There is nothing differnt about a movie based on a comic book or a Novel!!!!!!

FROM BRAD: Already made fun of spoof movies, and quite elaborately I may say.

- Comic book fan
( February 6th, 2009 | 11:34 pm )
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Post #14
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hey! c'mon! it's not our fault that you don't know a thing about comics, there are thousands, who knows? maybe millions like me, we love comics and we want to see more comic movies, and if some are terrible, who cares? there are worst movies outside the comic genre, so don't act like the world don't know nothing about comics, the surely do my friend, excuse me if there are mistakes, i dont speak english that well, im just peruvian and love ropeofsilicon

- Your worst nightmare
( February 10th, 2009 | 12:15 pm )
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Post #15
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If you're so concerned about not knowing what's going on with comics and comic book movies, why don't you get off your ass and head to a comic book shop or bookstore? Alan Rickman was right…if there isn't a movie about it, it's not worth knowing…Jesus, just pick up a comic book and start reading if you don't want to be in the dark. It's not the hard.

And despite initially being a lesser known hero, Iron Man was on of the most successful films of 2008…so that whole 'audiences disconnect from lesser known characters' argument is sort of…y'know…wrong.

- CFE
( March 1st, 2009 | 9:02 am )
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Post #16
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@CFE: Based on your final comment I see you didn't read the entire article, either that or didn't understand it. No worries, come back after a little bit more schooling and we can have a conversation.

- Brad Brevet (Post Author)
( March 1st, 2009 | 1:28 pm )
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Post #17
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I read and understood the entire article…yet you still felt the need to lump 'Iron Man' in as an example of alienating audiences.

I understand the point you're making…but I don't agree with it. Based on the success of 'Iron Man' and the anticipation of 'Iron Man 2' I think it's very clear that the general audiences you're attempting to speak for would disagree with you.

There are people who are going nuts over how awesome they think 'Watchmen' will be, yet they haven't read the book.

So on the contrary, I think General Audiences are embracing the new wave of comic book films. Thanks in large (in my opinion) to the success of 'The Dark Knight' and anticipations of both 'Watchmen' and 'Wolverine.'

- CFE
( March 1st, 2009 | 8:52 pm )
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Post #18
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And I realize that by the end of article you sort of eas up on general audiences, but I personally can't help but feel that you underestimate them.

Of course the ante has been upped for the sub-genre as a whole though, and that is something I can fully agree with.

- CFE
( March 1st, 2009 | 9:09 pm )
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Post #19
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@CFE: The problem with your argument is that I use Iron Man as an example of how lesser known superhero movies would need to be made, not that they couldn't be made. There is also a flaw in using one film as your example, in this case Iron Man is the exception to the rule, not the rule itself.

- Brad Brevet (Post Author)
( March 1st, 2009 | 9:40 pm )
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Post #20
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True, and re-reading your article I realize my mistake. Still, I stand by my statement that the general audience is being underestimated here.

But they're usually always underestimated, so…what're you gonna do.

I am quite excited with Martin Campbell being the front runner on "GL." I've been a fan of his since "No Escape" and he did a tremendous job with "Casino Royale."

- CFE
( March 1st, 2009 | 10:05 pm )
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