That is not John's original father, where did you pick that up from?

he still exists in the future, up until he gets sent back..

the whole point of confusion of Reese being Connors father was mentioned in the first movie, and revisited in Salvation by way of tape.. Sarah Connor recorded that one would go crazy trying to figure it out. Its not that big of a confusion..its just part of the story..he knows he has to send reese back for him to exist.. if he doesnt..then that future just doesnt exist.

I feel that the TV series did really good about giving you that personal feel to everyone that wasnt done in the movies. they also talk about how small things happening in the "modern day" times, then the future is adjusted also.
example: Cameron coming back to protect john connor, and spending so much time around him, causes him to be a bit more "computer friendly" in the future.

I am pissed that it got cancelled. i liked the new movie, but Marcus Wright threw me some confusion in the stories.

In the original movie, there is nothing to prove that Kyle Reese is the father of the 'future' John Conner that sent him back. Remember, the Kyle Reese that went back in time knew Judgment Day to be in 1997, which didn't happen. In Salvation, Conner assumes the future would reset if the younger Kyle Reese dies. But the younger Kyle Reese is from a future where JD didn't happen 2004, thus he cannot be the same person that goes back to 84 to father John Conner. You might think of this as a paradox but it's not if you consider that in the Terminator world, the past is set but the future is not. My take at least.

The story and character development of Salvation was fine (save the end) if you take into account the three (not two as most reviews refer to) previous movies. If you want an explanation of Kate's pregnancy, for example, watch the third movie. I actually think Salvation would have benefited from less exposition and hopefully they'll let McG take another shot at a cut for the home video release, just like Ridley Scott's Kingdom of Heaven. Or just let Ridley Scott do a cut of Salvation.

Aside from all that, T3 had a more 'ballsy' ending in the sense that it ended with Judgment Day.

Lets just hope that we can see another Terminator movie, a sequal NOT a remake.
Cause this franchise has a lot of good stuff and fans can support it or not but if they dont, you guys jus mess it up for your self by not seeing any terminator to get made.
If your still thinking about a remake, you cannot remake a classic and make it even better it just wont happen, specially with picky people.

you hit the nail on the head. Movies like T4 and Wolverine probably would have been accepted as typical summer product (along the lines of the Spider-man films) before Dark Knight raised the bar for summer action flicks.

also, someone is confused as to how Kyle Reese could be John's father and who was going to be his father if reese wasnt? I think its something like Reese was always meant to be Connor's father, there isnt somebody else.

I don't think it's too much to expect a script with even a little bit of character depth or heart. There are so many intriguing story points to be explored and none of them are. Kate's pregnancy isn't brought up once, we never get John's insights into being known as the "messiah" of the human race (probably the biggest let down. I was hoping they really explored him as a character and not just the token hero) and they just went out of their way to present more effects and action than anything of a cohesive story.

TDK was great because it did both, it brought the excitement of a summer movie but had a fantastic story to tell. There is absolutely great potential for this story but nobody bothered to write that script.

I think terminator salvation was an entertaining movie. Critics r expecting too much from summer action flicks ever since TDK.

Here is what is wrong with science fiction of any kind today: sci-fi fans approach every story like an entitlement, as though the logic of their minds have somehow concluded they're more deserving of what they want than everyone else. Guess what, you're not. It seems like every time fanboys are appeased (Watchmen) the movies bomb where movies made for a more general audience thus pissing off fanboys (Star Trek) do well.

In short, when are you fanboys going to stop pumping up your own importance? You're not important. Your opinions are no more important than anyone else's. In fact, since your outlook on things in general are incredibly out of the mainstream your opinions are about as meaningless as it gets. Deal with it.

So few mainstream movies take chances anymore and when they do they really leave a mark. The ending to "The Mist" is one of the greatest endings I've ever seen. It's so dark and brutally tragic that it stays with you for a long time. This would have been similar.

To be fair though, McG was never the guy for this.

If James Cameron wanted to continue his vision maybe he should continue directing Terminator movies. Otherwise, let the new director's put their 2 cents in, mediocre or not.

chuck

This is why I think the existance of Kyle Reese is the story biggest plot hole. After going over what I had originally written, I noticed a mistake. If McG's film took place entirely in the newly created alternate reality, Kyle Reese would have not been in Salvation as he would have died back in the 1980s. Looking back, this is the story that McG should have gone with; even with that the plot hole still remains of who the first John Connor was and who his father was. It's uber obvious that this is not the same John Connor that existed prior to Kyle Reese going back in time.

By not having Kyle Reese end up being John's father in the first Terminator, Cameron could have at least left open a new linear alternate reality Terminator universe where instead of killing John Connor the machines instead made him "stronger" as the new John Connor would have better insight on Skynet as he now knew of their existance ahead of time.

Then again, maybe Terminator was meant to be only 2 movies.

Or
Is it that they are talking about parallel universes and so the universe in which John Connor (of the T2 movie) was killed would never go on to find a resistance. Which means that Skynet in that universe would have to face no threat or any form of resistance.
This however doesnt make sense because why would the machines of another universe care if no change happened to their world…and only in another parallel universe…

I'm really confused… :S:S

I think Marcus Wright's character is also the writer's trying to acknowledge the alternate reality. Perhaps the reason Connor doesn't know what he is is because he thinks he's human, which is a change from Arnold's Terminator who knew it was a machine. Maybe Marcus is Skynet's way of creating a more human like terminator since the T-800, although they looked human, still was unable to grow any real connection to humans like love, etc.

In the end I think McG just made a mediocre movie because he's a mediocre director.

You could have still continued the stroyline without including either ending. The story presented in this film was just bad, and even though time travel stories always have plot holes, all this film did was create more. The Terminator's franchise biggest hole is Kyle Reese being Connor's father as it begs the question if Reese is John's father in the alternate reality created by going back in time, who is John Connor's original father?

Where this movie failed is that it tried to acknowledge that this indeed was an alternate reality where John was fully aware of his destiny to become leader of the resistance, but hardly anything in the movie supported this notion. Like when he tells Marcus that humanoid Terminators like him tried to kill Connor and his mother when he was younger, he is clearly acknowledging an alternate reality; Yet for some reason he is dumbfounded when he discovers that Skynet is taking human prisoners and developing humanoid Terminators. Shouldn't an alternate reality John Connor already know what Marcus Wright is when he first sees him? Same goes for when he runs into the Arnold T-800 near the film's end.

A better continuation of the story would have went with the alternate reality where Kyle Reese's importance is that he has to go back in time once more in order to keep yet another alternate reality from taking place, so in essence Reese becomes the saviour of humanity not Connor. Terminator Salvation didn't know if it wanted to take place in the established alternate reality or if wanted to show the events that led up to Kyle Reese being sent back in time almost like a prequel type setup. I believe it's trying to be 2 movies at once.

I think a better ending would have been to swap John Connor onto a T-800 and program it so it thinks it's John. Connor's character has religious symbolism as being a saviour for all mankind; What better way to play that up then to have him die and to be born again as a machine? I think that using this symbolism as a central part of the story, and displaying how others react to it, would have helped with hashing out more character development of not only John, but everyone else that we're supposed to give a shit about.