I might've preferred this ending, but when would Kyle have gone back to the events of the first movie? It doesn't make sense, but it's at least cool.

Too funny that I tweeted after seeing it that I was shocked that Connor dies and Marcus is the real leader of the resistance.

GOD that ending would have pissed me off, and not made any sense.

@Eric: I am assuming, in theory, it would have already happened, but this is the fundamental when films use time travel as a storytelling device, plot holes sprout like weeds. If you really look at Star Trek, the entire film doesn't make sense due to logic flaws involving time travel.

I think that ending would have sucked. It is safe to assume that if that procedure would have taken place, that it would still be Marcus on the inside it would just look like Connor. So if Marcus was friendly before, why would he then kill everyone when the only thing that changes about him is his outward appearance? It would fit if we found out Marcus was playing everyone for fools, but with the way the rest of the film went it wouldn't make sense, especially considering Marcus didn't even know himself that he was a machine.

I think a better ending would have been to swap John Connor onto a T-800 and program it so it thinks it's John. Connor's character has religious symbolism as being a saviour for all mankind; What better way to play that up then to have him die and to be born again as a machine? I think that using this symbolism as a central part of the story, and displaying how others react to it, would have helped with hashing out more character development of not only John, but everyone else that we're supposed to give a shit about.

well you guys fail to mention that that ending was changed probably because too many bloggers bitched about the storyline and continuation. So if you thought that sounded interesting blame yourselves for not being able to shut the hell up and not letting that hack McG make the movie he signed on for

@t.j.p:

You could have still continued the stroyline without including either ending. The story presented in this film was just bad, and even though time travel stories always have plot holes, all this film did was create more. The Terminator's franchise biggest hole is Kyle Reese being Connor's father as it begs the question if Reese is John's father in the alternate reality created by going back in time, who is John Connor's original father?

Where this movie failed is that it tried to acknowledge that this indeed was an alternate reality where John was fully aware of his destiny to become leader of the resistance, but hardly anything in the movie supported this notion. Like when he tells Marcus that humanoid Terminators like him tried to kill Connor and his mother when he was younger, he is clearly acknowledging an alternate reality; Yet for some reason he is dumbfounded when he discovers that Skynet is taking human prisoners and developing humanoid Terminators. Shouldn't an alternate reality John Connor already know what Marcus Wright is when he first sees him? Same goes for when he runs into the Arnold T-800 near the film's end.

A better continuation of the story would have went with the alternate reality where Kyle Reese's importance is that he has to go back in time once more in order to keep yet another alternate reality from taking place, so in essence Reese becomes the saviour of humanity not Connor. Terminator Salvation didn't know if it wanted to take place in the established alternate reality or if wanted to show the events that led up to Kyle Reese being sent back in time almost like a prequel type setup. I believe it's trying to be 2 movies at once.

One thing I forgot to mention:

I think Marcus Wright's character is also the writer's trying to acknowledge the alternate reality. Perhaps the reason Connor doesn't know what he is is because he thinks he's human, which is a change from Arnold's Terminator who knew it was a machine. Maybe Marcus is Skynet's way of creating a more human like terminator since the T-800, although they looked human, still was unable to grow any real connection to humans like love, etc.

In the end I think McG just made a mediocre movie because he's a mediocre director.

Guys I had question that has been bothering me from the first movie…. So umm.. what would happen if The T-1000 was able to kill John Connor back in T2?? Would the future John Connor just dropr dead? Would he just vanish…??
Because this seems kind of absurd…

Or
Is it that they are talking about parallel universes and so the universe in which John Connor (of the T2 movie) was killed would never go on to find a resistance. Which means that Skynet in that universe would have to face no threat or any form of resistance.
This however doesnt make sense because why would the machines of another universe care if no change happened to their world…and only in another parallel universe…

I'm really confused… :S:S

@Ben: Exactly.

@Amit:

This is why I think the existance of Kyle Reese is the story biggest plot hole. After going over what I had originally written, I noticed a mistake. If McG's film took place entirely in the newly created alternate reality, Kyle Reese would have not been in Salvation as he would have died back in the 1980s. Looking back, this is the story that McG should have gone with; even with that the plot hole still remains of who the first John Connor was and who his father was. It's uber obvious that this is not the same John Connor that existed prior to Kyle Reese going back in time.

By not having Kyle Reese end up being John's father in the first Terminator, Cameron could have at least left open a new linear alternate reality Terminator universe where instead of killing John Connor the machines instead made him "stronger" as the new John Connor would have better insight on Skynet as he now knew of their existance ahead of time.

Then again, maybe Terminator was meant to be only 2 movies.

If they used that ending people would have screamed that McG ruined James Camerons vision of the series. NO doubt on paper that ending is really interesting sci-fi but it would have caused a backlash that really would have hurt the legacy of the overall franchise. Think about it- that ending is as dark as night!

chuck

@entertainmenttodayandbeyond.com:

If James Cameron wanted to continue his vision maybe he should continue directing Terminator movies. Otherwise, let the new director's put their 2 cents in, mediocre or not.

this would've been the gayest ending ever

Personally, I liked the movie for what it was: an action movie. It's not going to be perfect and it's not going to be up to the critics' snooty standards, but it's entertaining as hell, and I'm not sorry about seeing it at all. And I liked the ending, because frankly, it would have been absolutely ridiculous to kill John Connor off of the Terminator franchise. Marcus Wright dies, John Connor lives. The end.

I've been saying since the day I heard they changed it that this is the ending they should have gone with. "Salvation" obviously has numerous problems, but to me, most of those would had been forgiven if they went this route.

So few mainstream movies take chances anymore and when they do they really leave a mark. The ending to "The Mist" is one of the greatest endings I've ever seen. It's so dark and brutally tragic that it stays with you for a long time. This would have been similar.

To be fair though, McG was never the guy for this.

What is it with the bizarre obsession fanboys have with "Fuck You" endings? Are you really that pissed with society for treating you like the fanboys you are that you want movies to end in ways that will piss everyone except 1% (you) of the population off?

Here is what is wrong with science fiction of any kind today: sci-fi fans approach every story like an entitlement, as though the logic of their minds have somehow concluded they're more deserving of what they want than everyone else. Guess what, you're not. It seems like every time fanboys are appeased (Watchmen) the movies bomb where movies made for a more general audience thus pissing off fanboys (Star Trek) do well.

In short, when are you fanboys going to stop pumping up your own importance? You're not important. Your opinions are no more important than anyone else's. In fact, since your outlook on things in general are incredibly out of the mainstream your opinions are about as meaningless as it gets. Deal with it.

No that would be a silly ending, as much as it sounds cool. And since 2 more terminator movies r planned they would really have to do more crazy things for continuation purposes.

I think terminator salvation was an entertaining movie. Critics r expecting too much from summer action flicks ever since TDK.

@adu

I don't think it's too much to expect a script with even a little bit of character depth or heart. There are so many intriguing story points to be explored and none of them are. Kate's pregnancy isn't brought up once, we never get John's insights into being known as the "messiah" of the human race (probably the biggest let down. I was hoping they really explored him as a character and not just the token hero) and they just went out of their way to present more effects and action than anything of a cohesive story.

TDK was great because it did both, it brought the excitement of a summer movie but had a fantastic story to tell. There is absolutely great potential for this story but nobody bothered to write that script.

@adu:

you hit the nail on the head. Movies like T4 and Wolverine probably would have been accepted as typical summer product (along the lines of the Spider-man films) before Dark Knight raised the bar for summer action flicks.

also, someone is confused as to how Kyle Reese could be John's father and who was going to be his father if reese wasnt? I think its something like Reese was always meant to be Connor's father, there isnt somebody else.

I have to say that alternative ending the one when jonh dies and marcus replace him with out killing everybody but save the resistence would make better sense since the movie is call (salvation),and the resistence and skynet will think jonh still alive and he is more of a challenge,then since jonh is now a machine he knows how to destroy this machines and the resistance will think he is the man for the job.now since the machines see the growing of people who see jonh as some kind of a pro in killing machines they (the machines)will think the only way to destroy the resistance is by killing jonh and since they can't kill him(since jonh is marcus a.k.a a terminator)they send a t-800 to the past to terminate jonh connor by killing his mom and erase from history,now that will make sense by the story in "terminator 2"when the t-800 told jonh(kid) he was send by him(jonh connor from the future)to protect him..and since kyle reese did not know jonh is now marcus he offers himself to go to the past by orders of jonh connor (a.k.a marcus)to save the resistance….whala!!!!!!!!!!!

You have to look at a pre-quell movie story as the original pass through time where John Connors (John's original father was the guy who ditched Sarah for her date in T1) gets to the point in the future, after Skynet is defeated & has sent T101 to 1984, to send Kyle Reese back to 1984. The T1 movie covers these events after Kyle arrives in 1984. Then the memories John have changed after Kyle goes through the time machine and we would progress to the point where john sends the T800 back to 1997. The T2 movie covers these events after the T800 arrives in 1997. Then the memories of John (I guess he is supposed to be dead T3) have changed after the T800 goes through the time machine and the story would progress to the final victory over Skynet. The T3 movie should have been the pre-quell movie which would have explained how the war with the machines really started and brought in new audiences to the overall story arc. Instead, the T3 and now T4 are trying to fill the gap between Judgment Day and the point where John sends the T101 back to 1984 and it is loosing the struggling humanity part of the story. Maybe T5 would be this movie and fix the problems created in T3 and T4.

This "original ending" thing sounds like a bad joke. It would have made no damn sense. If Skynet wins, how's John Connor supposed to send Kyle Reese back in time? I prefer the Harry Potter brand of time travel, where all the events have already happened, but they just seem different when relived from a different angle.

the movie was good but not the right expectation that everyone was hoping for since wb had a great thing last year, and internet really kills movies nowadays specially on franchise that r well known, i would have preferred john dies n marcus gets his skin but does not kill kyle or any other characters but they would jus think he is still john connor. That would been pretty cool then a heart transplant cause, think of wat they have open for the next movie, the relationship between moonbloods charcter n johns wife and commons character dat would be awesome.

Lets just hope that we can see another Terminator movie, a sequal NOT a remake.
Cause this franchise has a lot of good stuff and fans can support it or not but if they dont, you guys jus mess it up for your self by not seeing any terminator to get made.
If your still thinking about a remake, you cannot remake a classic and make it even better it just wont happen, specially with picky people.

Well if this ending took place, we'd have Kyle Reese dead, which means no John Connor. But if there is no John Connor to begin with, then there is no Marcus Wright/Connor exterior killing Kyle Reese. So the writers set us up with a paradox.

The whole premise behind time travel in the Terminator franchise is that nothing is certain; the future can be changed.

In the original movie, there is nothing to prove that Kyle Reese is the father of the 'future' John Conner that sent him back. Remember, the Kyle Reese that went back in time knew Judgment Day to be in 1997, which didn't happen. In Salvation, Conner assumes the future would reset if the younger Kyle Reese dies. But the younger Kyle Reese is from a future where JD didn't happen 2004, thus he cannot be the same person that goes back to 84 to father John Conner. You might think of this as a paradox but it's not if you consider that in the Terminator world, the past is set but the future is not. My take at least.

The story and character development of Salvation was fine (save the end) if you take into account the three (not two as most reviews refer to) previous movies. If you want an explanation of Kate's pregnancy, for example, watch the third movie. I actually think Salvation would have benefited from less exposition and hopefully they'll let McG take another shot at a cut for the home video release, just like Ridley Scott's Kingdom of Heaven. Or just let Ridley Scott do a cut of Salvation.

Aside from all that, T3 had a more 'ballsy' ending in the sense that it ended with Judgment Day.

@Brad Brevet: Not ture…
Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure, flawless time travel!

T4 was infinately more interesting than T3 (which was dead boring),
also T4 makes perfect continuity with T1, even showing how
John Conner gets his facial scar. hopefully T5 shows the events
leading up to the T800 (Arnold) being sent back to 1984 to terminate
Sarah Conner, and Kyle being sent after him. so that this would be the
actual prequal to T1. then I would like to see T6 show us how the war ends.
I'm in two minds whether it should be the machines who prevail or the humans :)

I'm sick of unnecessary prequels, so the original T4 ending should have been used. Personally, I liked "downer" endings, especially if they're completely unexpected. Just imagine if the Kyle Reece sent back wasn't the same person depicted in T4, but rather someone else who was brainwashed/conditioned into believing they were that person. Or, better yet (or more confusing), Marcus-Connor travels back in time himself to stop the T-800 and T-1000 and completely dispose of the elements. No Judgement Day, no SkyNet.

no..kyle reese going back and dying in the 80s..does not change him in the future.. THAT IS him in the future.. he did not exist in the 80s..that was way before he was born.

he still exists in the future, up until he gets sent back..

the whole point of confusion of Reese being Connors father was mentioned in the first movie, and revisited in Salvation by way of tape.. Sarah Connor recorded that one would go crazy trying to figure it out. Its not that big of a confusion..its just part of the story..he knows he has to send reese back for him to exist.. if he doesnt..then that future just doesnt exist.

I feel that the TV series did really good about giving you that personal feel to everyone that wasnt done in the movies. they also talk about how small things happening in the "modern day" times, then the future is adjusted also.
example: Cameron coming back to protect john connor, and spending so much time around him, causes him to be a bit more "computer friendly" in the future.

I am pissed that it got cancelled. i liked the new movie, but Marcus Wright threw me some confusion in the stories.

@JoeJoe:

That is not John's original father, where did you pick that up from?