Exclusive: 30 Minutes with Kevin Smith
We talk Zack and Miri, Watchmen, Red State, politics, pubes and so much more...
Photo: Weinstein Co.
Is it just because Seth Rogen is in it? If he wasn't in it would we still be talking about it?
KS: I think if he wasn't in it we'd still be getting a bit of that, but not nearly as much as we have with Seth being in it, but Seth is kind of a lightning rod in as much as when you see him people think of Judd Apatow. Then, all of a sudden, people start thinking of the similarities between the Apatow flicks and the flicks we have done in the past as well.
Do you think of your films as outrageous or raunchy?
KS: For me personally, no, but that's because in the world I live in, my very small circle, it doesn't occur to me as outrageous or raunchy because that's my sense of humor and that's my friends' sense of humor. We're very candid and frank when we talk about anything, even sex. We talk a lot about sex just because it is so interesting and I guess at a certain point you're supposed to put away all discussion of sex otherwise they label you as infantile, but to me sex and poop, those are the two things we have in common. It's a fascinating subject, especially the older you get. Talking about shitting is far more interesting now than it was ten years ago because now shitting isn't as easy as it used to be, the older I get, and I want to talk to my friends who are my age who are like, "Yeah, shitting ain't what it used to be."
So you don't see it as raunchy and for some reason everyone labeling it raunchy is interviewing you and using language such as cock, pussy, labia, shit, etc. And they like the film and seem to understand where it's coming from. I see it more as realistic, the way people talk in your film is how a lot of people talk.
KS: I remember having a discussion with Seth at one point about Judd and Judd's stuff and I thought it was kind of telling, because I didn't meet Judd for a few months after this and I have since met him and he's a wonderful guy.
You guys at Comic Con were fantastic.
KS: Yeah, he was fun to sit next to in that, it was nice to be up there with somebody funny. So Seth told me at one point because I asked, "So, is Judd just filthy as well?" He goes, "No, Judd's the exact opposite. Judd's not filthy. I remember when we were working on 'Undeclared' I wanted to do a storyline about a dude who stays in his dorm room with his girlfriend all day and have sex and Judd was like that wouldn't happen…" Seth said he was like, "Are you crazy? Of course it would."
I don't think Judd dwells in as much as the prurient as I do on a regular basis. I think he's got what I would call "grown-up friends" and shit like that and they talk about more than just the dirty basics. To me, I don't know, the stuff doesn't occur to me as raunchy. It just feels like, if you are going to make a movie with the word "porno" in the title sex is going to come up once or twice. And if you're going to make a movie with "porno" in the title you're going to shoot porn and there's going to be some nudity and whatnot. It certainly doesn't feel like we're trying to shoehorn it in just to be outrageous. If you're going to make a movie about the Holocaust, sooner or later you're going to reference a Nazi. If you're going to make a movie about porn, sooner or later somebody's dick is going to come out.
Photo: Weinstein Co.
Which leads me to the title. You make a movie with the word "porn" in the title and I have heard you say that automatically means the MPAA is going to come down on you.
KS: Closer scrutiny. Totally.
I would think a movie with the word "porn" in the title doesn't even need a rating.
KS: Thank you, that was my point and that was the point I made when I got up to make the appeal defense at the appeals screening. Which was, this title governs the movie, I'm not saying don't rate the movie, but when you have the word "porno" in the title you're going to keep out anybody who's not remotely inclined to see this movie. No blue hair is going to be sitting in the audience, "I had no idea it was going to be about this," and storm out angrily. It's got "Porno" right there, front and center, we don't bury the lead. So anybody that's like that shit ain't their bag, they ain't gonna go and it's going to play to the people who are cooler with that, have a sense of humor and that term doesn't bother them. Ultimately that's what it comes down to, a word.
Admittedly, it is kind of weird to see a trailer for this film on television. Just because the word "Porno" is in there it feels like someone got away with something. (Be sure to watch the anti-version at the end of this interview)
KS: It is kind of fun to hear that voice over guy go, "Zack and Miri Make a Porno."
With the colorful background…
KS: Yeah, but you've seen the movie now, it's like, I guess from that title people have it set in their mind what the movie is and that movie is definitely in there. We don't disappoint, they do make a fucking porno, but at the same time that's not the only thing the movie is preoccupied with. Porno is the background noise of the whole movie, whereas it's more about relationships than anything else and about their relationship particularly.
So like some people want to see the forest for the trees and that's that, and some people just like to go into the forest and enjoy everything instead of just the trees.
Photo: Weinstein Co.
You have mentioned in other interviews how if the MPAA had really looked closely they could have certainly seen some things like labia shots and bits of ass hole, but they really would have had to look. If they had gotten to that point wouldn't you have to start thinking they just didn't want people to see your movie?
KS: No, going into it I assumed the MPAA would kick back that one shot of the stripper where she's dancing from behind, you definitely see labia. They don't want to see erect penises and they don't want to see labia in movies. So anytime you see a chick in a movie who is naked she's got one of those big ass '70s bushes and that's why, with the chick in the audition sequence in the movie, where Delany is sitting there and she just finally rips off her dress, we had to find a chick with a full bush for that purpose because we didn't want to get tagged with having labia in the movie.
It was so crazy trying to find a woman in the 21st Century, in 2008, who doesn't have some sort of wax job going on. Luckily the chick, Lena, who played that role is like, "I just broke up with my boyfriend two weeks ago so I don't care." So we were able to rock it, but it was tough.
We had casting agents looking for strippers or anyone who was remotely inclined to take their clothes off in a movie in Pittsburgh and all of them had landing strips or Brazilians and then Lena who was a member of the board, at the website, she stepped up and was like, "I'll totally do this and I have a huge bush right now." So it worked out.
It just felt like when it comes to stuff like that, I thought any problem we would have with the MPAA was going to be with that stripper shot, which we had an alt-take for where she was wearing a g-string. So we figured if they flag it we'll just swap out the shots.
Then they focused on two areas, the prolonged thrusting really boggled my mind because it was obviously fake. All that thrusting, you don't see any sort of indication of genitalia, you definitely don't see insertion because it ain't going up. The "shit shot" I gave them a little more lee-way on because I felt I understood why someone would flag this, but still it's less than a second long, it's 14 frames. My argument there was that it was 14 frames, it's barely a shot. If we had done this before the first test screening I would have been like, "Ah, we don't need it," but after the test screening I'm like, "We can't lose that shot, it's funny."
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