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FILED UNDER: The Shallow End

Do We Need a Christopher Nolan Batman Trilogy?

Was 'The Dark Knight' good enough? Should we leave it at that?

David Frank knows more than you. Care to disagree?
Congratulations Christopher Nolan. You just delivered the best comic-book film ever. And creeping hell, it happens to be one of the all-time great sequels too. And did I mention it just shattered box-office records like a sledgehammer on a potato chip? What are you doing next…after going to Disney World of course? Oh yes, you might just attempt to break the dreaded comic-book film trilogy curse. Good luck mate, succeeding with that will make your accomplishments on The Dark Knight seem down-right pathetic.

After witnessing the cholesterol reducing* genius of The Dark Knight this weekend, a weird thought struck me. Do we need a third entry in Nolan's Batman trilogy? Don't get me wrong, we all want to see one. But should Nolan (who's technically not signed on for a third film, but I'd be shocked if he passed) risk soiling all he has rebuilt from the ashes of Joel Schumacher's napalm raid with another foray into bat country? Can we not just leave Batman Begins and The Dark Knight as one of the great one-two punches in cinematic history? Of course not, The Dark Knight was too damn good and made too much cash not to green-light The Caped Crusader.**

Can you think of a film franchise in which the third film was the best?
I don't think I need to remind you that a fully satisfying third film in a comic-book trilogy currently exists in the same realm of the Tooth Fairy and a talented Paul W.S. Anderson's. Superman III. Sucks. Batman Forever. Three words: Tommy Lee Jones. Blade: Trinity. I don't like vampires in my iPod commercials. X-Men: The Last Stand. Seriously, was that fucking Prince with the sonic hand-clap superpower? In my opinion the closest film to make a dent in a the curse is Spider-Man 3 - deeply flawed and lazy, but full of great action. Yet, not many are willing to even give it that much credit. After all, it's hip to hate on Spidey these days. Only when a third installment of a comic-book franchise gains an overwhelming consensus that it's worth a damn will I admit the curse is broken.

It's no coincidence that the suckitude of comic-bock film number three is inversely proportional to the ass-kickery of movie number two. With no origin story and a bigger budget, the first sequel allows the filmmakers to essentially blow their loads in both action and character exploration. Hell, Nolan admitted as much during an interview RopeofSilicon ran last week: "We certainly didn't want to hamper ourselves by saving anything for future films." And it's pretty hard to disagree with that statement considering how epic The Dark Knight is.

Nolan and company played it smart by waiting to break out the franchise's best villain until the second film - something most comic-book films don't do. Yet, part of me almost wishes they'd save The Joker for the third film. After the emotional meat grinder The Joker throws Batman, Commissioner Gordon, and Harvey Dent into, how can you top that? It'll be nearly impossible to raise the stakes that high again. And let's face it, we'll probably never see another Joker story in this franchise since no actor is stupid enough to jump in the gigantic clown shoes Heath Ledger left behind.

If a film is only as good as its villain, how can you beat Ledger's Joker? Like most people - SPOILER AHEAD - I thought The Dark Knight was setting up a Two-Face story for the next film - perhaps the only villain that could follow-up The Joker. Oh how we underestimated Nolan's ambition. Who knew he'd wrap the entire Two-Face arc into The Joker's story…and succeed wildly at it?

There certainly isn't a shortage of Batman villains, but which one would be the best? Eh Chris? Which one?
So now we don't have too many choices left. The Riddler is like a nerdier, less menacing version of The Joker. Mr. Freeze: great tragic villain, but too sci-fi for Nolan's world. And so is Killer Croc and Clayface for that matter. Catwoman would be interesting, yet Tim Burton covered the subtext of her relationship to Batman pretty well. Poison Ivy: nah. And Bane is pretty much a beefed up version of The Gimp from Pulp Fiction - although a leather daddy super villain would definitely be a first for a mainstream film. The Penguin, perhaps, but I'm only interested if they could guarantee Phillip Seymour Hoffman in the role. And then there's the Mad Hatter. Quite simply, fuck the Mad Hatter.

Perhaps the best path for the third film lies within Frank Miller's "The Dark Knight Returns." It's a radical idea, but just maybe Nolan should jump 30 years in the future and do a loose adaptation of Miller's masterwork. Several of the ideas found in Nolan's films would dovetail seamlessly into Miller's story (Batman gangs, Batman's one rule, Batman as an outlaw). And yes, I just said no actor would be stupid enough to follow-up Ledger's work, but The Joker in "The Dark Knight Returns" is 30 years older and that opens up new avenues for exploration. So recast the role with an older actor, and maybe you'll hit some sparks. Who knows?

Yet, that'll never happen. Not unless fanboys rise from their mother's basements and stage a coup at Warner Bros. However, with all of that said about the odds being against the third film, I have complete and utter faith in Nolan (with the exception of his debut film, Following¸ the man has never made a movie that didn't end up on my top-ten list). If anyone can pull it off, he can. The Dark Knight alone should win anyone's trust. Although if confirmation comes that Robin will cartwheel into the next film, be afraid, very afraid because Nolan has lost his mind.

* Not scientifically proven…yet.

** The rumors begin here on the third film's title. I'd love The Dark Knight Returns, but it carries too much baggage between Frank Miller's hailed graphic novel of the same name and Batman Returns. Although, I'm back to that in a second.

 
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Post #1
Do We Need a Christopher Nolan Batman Trilogy?
Yeah I know what you mean, It's gonna be such a tough assignment to top TDK. As long as there is no Robin I say he should go for it. I am not even sure if the Joker won't be involved...if any one can fill Ledger's shoes it's Johnny Depp...I think he could do a fantastic job too...but they should perhaps show him as someone who is inspired by the original joker (heath ledger's) not act as the same person...you know? It's a tough sell, but in my opinion it could work.

Or they could bring two-face...we don't 'really' know if he's dead or not ya know!
- adu [Posts: 109]
(Jul. 22, 2008 - 6:10:17 AM)
Post #2
Do We Need a Christopher Nolan Batman Trilogy?
Tricky one indeed.
A good villain is crucial but not the only ingredient needed.
I was so happy when I heard Venom was appearing in Spidey 3 until I saw how the film ended up. It just wasn't enough.
I'm a Marvel fan so not well versed in Batman villainery, therefore I have no idea who to consider.
Hasn't Catwoman allready been ruined?

I haven't seen the film yet but it just doesn't seem like a good idea to ever bring back the joker in this series (if it becomes one). Fans will compare and it will get messy.

A lot of things allso don't translate well from comic to screen hence the change from colourfull spandex to black leather with x-men.
So just like Brad said the Riddler for instance is just to weak of a character for the big screen.
And god no, no Robin. Or Batgirl.
- RaTTleR_NL [Posts: 136]
(Jul. 22, 2008 - 7:02:37 AM)
Post #3
Do We Need a Christopher Nolan Batman Trilogy?
I think he has to do another batman movie. The ending of The Dark Knight left it too open to not.
- moviefreak77 [Posts: 7]
(Jul. 22, 2008 - 9:14:37 AM)
Post #4
Do We Need a Christopher Nolan Batman Trilogy?
I think I would be satisfied, but let's face it there will be another one.
SPOILER AHEAD

Villian options: SPOILER: Is Two-Face really dead? Didn't he just fall?

How about bringing back Scarecrow?

Penguin is a good idea with Hoffman

How about Harley Quinn? I would love a good female villian.

Catwoman is probably one of the most recognized villian in the batverse besides the Joker, so she seems like the most logical choice. Burton did a great job with it, but that Halle Berry movie ruined it.

Aren't both MadHatter and Riddler variations of the Joker. So I would say no to both of them.

It always seems like the third movie is where the hero goes dark or maybe I'm just thinking about SM3.



- BeautifulM [Posts: 126]
(Jul. 22, 2008 - 11:02:16 AM)
Post #5
Quote (BeautifulM;3521):

SPOILER AHEAD

Villian options: SPOILER: Is Two-Face really dead? Didn't he just fall?

How about bringing back Scarecrow?

How about Harley Quinn? I would love a good female villian.



To answer your spoiler question. Yes, [SPOILER]Two-Face is dead. Gordon was speaking at what looked like a public funeral. Plus the decision at the end doesn't have as much ummph or make as sense if Harvey Dent survived the fall.[/SPOILER]

I think Batman Begins explores all the themes that the Scarecrow represents. It'd be redundant..

Harley Quinn would feel like Joker-lite/retread if she was a stand-alone villain.
- davidfrank [Posts: 135]
(Jul. 22, 2008 - 11:18:06 AM)
Post #6
Do We Need a Christopher Nolan Batman Trilogy?
!!!!Spoiler Warning!!!



Sadly two face is dead but batman has a list of great villians (in my opinion)

the villians they can go with is problay Catwoman since there is no leading lady anymore since she rachel dies

The Riddler is an option probly another re-invented version and it might blow everybodies expectation away (look how everybody backlash when Heath ledger was signed in to be the joker then everybody praise him since its a different type of joker)

The Penguin aslong as they get Hoffman it'll be great

And what about Hush??? he might be great and it will fit in, in Nolan's Batman world

I agree No Robin or Batgirl



- Bishop [Posts: 1]
(Jul. 22, 2008 - 11:52:29 AM)
Post #7
Quote (davidfrank;3522):To answer your spoiler question. Yes, [SPOILER]Two-Face is dead. Gordon was speaking at what looked like a public funeral. Plus the decision at the end doesn't have as much ummph or make as sense if Harvey Dent survived the fall.[/SPOILER]

I think Batman Begins explores all the themes that the Scarecrow represents. It'd be redundant..

Harley Quinn would feel like Joker-lite/retread if she was a stand-alone villain.


You're probably right, but I think it's going to be hard to top the Joker, it WAS best to introduce him in the second film.

People are speculating that it will be the Riddler because he was in the Dark Knight. I guess we'll have to trust Nolan, if he does a third one.
- BeautifulM [Posts: 126]
(Jul. 22, 2008 - 12:06:06 PM)
Post #8
Quote (Bishop;3523):!!!!Spoiler Warning!!!

And what about Hush??? he might be great and it will fit in, in Nolan's Batman world


I thought about mentioning Hush...and he definitely would fit in Nolan's world...but he's sort of a weak follow-up to the Joker. Yet, who knows? It could work.
- davidfrank [Posts: 135]
(Jul. 22, 2008 - 12:49:10 PM)
Post #9
Do We Need a Christopher Nolan Batman Trilogy?
Everyone here makes good points but Nolan has already said he is not going to use the penguin because who is to unreal (imdb The Dark Knight trivia). But i feel that not many people understand what the riddler can be. sure he is kinda like the joker but not really like the joker says in this movie he just "does things" no plan, but with the riddler its all about plans and leaving little riddles everywhere to fuck with you andto try and see if anyone is smarter than him. the best way to view him in a dark way without reading the some comics is in Batman TAS the first one that had the riddler was called "if your so smart why arent you rich?" and that is a dark story and if they could make the riddler liek that but darker and fit the theme of the movies i dont see why not because he can be very dark. as for hush he has a good story i feel with a good twist to it so like what davidfrank said it could work. I have nothing but faith in Nolan and his brother to write the best sotry they can and it might take some time but im willing to wait. time will tell. also what happened to two-face to me felt like it was ment to be i couldnt of been any happier
- Ziemer90 [Posts: 29]
(Jul. 22, 2008 - 1:20:20 PM)
Post #10
Quote (davidfrank;3522):To answer your spoiler question. Yes, [SPOILER]Two-Face is dead. Gordon was speaking at what looked like a public funeral. Plus the decision at the end doesn't have as much ummph or make as sense if Harvey Dent survived the fall.[/SPOILER]

I gotta disagree with that.
If you notice, no coffin is shown at the funeral. Also the decision remains the same. They dont want Harvey Dent to be a bad guy, essentially. If hes dead, then he can die a hero, in the public eye. If he survived, and is put away in Arkham in his own little private cell, then the decision has the same impact, as far as the citizens of Gotham are concerned...then they can have the inevitable escape....

I also think they MAY have alluded to Catwoman...
The conversation about his new armor, about if it would hold back a dog, to which Alfred said, "Maybe a cat..."

Just a thought...
- ckybltz [Posts: 132]
(Jul. 22, 2008 - 4:26:23 PM)
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